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1. 

   believecommonsense said, 5 months ago

   IMHO, this is quite silly … I don’t believe either Bush 43 nor Obama wanted this to be the case … they had to act on the situation that was presented

2. 

   TrickyPickle said, 5 months ago

   Ok, I’m NOT an expert on this so prepare to hear a COMPLETELY unsupported opinion. Can someone explain to me why the US gov’t even wants to bail out GM? I mean, haven’t they failed as a competitive business? They aren’t responsive to the market, they aren’t efficient, they aren’t well guided and they suffer from old overheads and costs that more modern companies aren’t saddled with. What makes people think they can change this? Why not let them fail, and let someone else step in and have a go? I’m really curious, if anyone here has expert knowledge I’d like to hear the answers.

3. 

   lalas said, 5 months ago

   TrickyP – too many jobs. Dump 3M people on the street and then how low will the recession go?

4. 

   GNWachs said, 5 months ago

   TrickyP- note the only group to come out of the bankruptcy relatively intact were the unions. Who do you think will be paying them their bloated pensions?

5. 

   tpenna said, 5 months ago

   GNWachs, as the CEO of General Motors will tell you (and, in fact, did tell Glenn Beck on his program), the UAW has been a constructive partner in trying to keep GM solvent. They have given considerable concessions on an array of benefits.

6. 

   cdward said, 5 months ago

   Tricky P, lalas said it, and I’m only concurring. There are just way too many people who would lose their jobs. Not only would it extend the recession or drive it into full blown depression, but then you’d have 2-3 million ANGRY people milling about with nothing constructive to do.
   
   And the UAW has made significant concessions. No golden parachutes there.

7. 

   GNWachs said, 5 months ago

   In a case of Bankruptcy obvious stockholders lose almost everything. The top officers have been replaced (deservedly), creditors are in major trouble but the bloated pensions which are at the base of the problem have been to a great extent preserved. Why should the American taxpayer fund those pensions?

   Of course the UAW has made concessions in an attempt to keep GM solvent but now they are in bankruptcy and not solvent. I repeat why should I pay retired autoworkers their pension? What percentage of the total assets of bankrupt GM will go to the UAW?

8. 

   tpenna said, 5 months ago

   To quote David Horsey’s Nov. 19th toon on the subject:

   “… and you know WHY we’re going bankrupt? THAT guy thinks he needs health care and a middle class wage!” (says the CEO wearing a golden parachute)

9. 

   GNWachs said, 5 months ago

   But what do we do now that the CEO has totally lost his golden parachute? There is no one else left to pay the co-payment-free health care and upper middle class wage except the taxpayer.

10. 

    fennec said, 5 months ago

    GNW, do you really believe the golden-parachuted CEO was paying these things for anyone? If so, may I interest you in a bridge?

11. 

    TrickyPickle said, 5 months ago

    Well, the only direct responses were along the lines of “Too many people lose their jobs = longer recession = possible depression”.

    First let’s assume this is true. But is the solution actually pumping scarce money into a business that will never be profitable? Isn’t this more like gov’t paying you a salary? It continues to be weight that pulls down the economy anyway. If you can’t be competitive then you’ll just end up being a drain on taxpayers wallets. I mean, if there is some strong reasonable expectation that GM will turn it around somehow then fine. But that’s not how it is I think.

    Second, let’s say this is false. For example, sure GM goes under and people lose millions of jobs. But the ingredients for success are still there. You have the technical experience, the physical factories, labor that’s more flexible and willing to work for less to increase competitiveness… what’s to stop something better from rising from the ashes? So rather than prolong the recession, it shortens it and staves off depression. Isn’t that what America is all about?

    As I said before, I am NOT well informed on this. Heck, I’m not even American. But from where I stand (admittedly far away) it doesn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense.

12. 

    churchillwasright said, 5 months ago

    TRICKYPICKLE: I agree with you. That used to be the American way. Build a better mousetrap and people will wear a path to your door. But politicians know that no one will be indebted to them that way.