Eryx….the Christian religion was always given exemption from certain taxes, while salary officials pay income and social security personal taxes.
The rational has always been that while a local church does not receive particular government benefits, costing the taxpayers nothing, the teachings benefit society by encouraging lawabiding citizens who usually do not require police expenditures, or welfare spending, etc…
Local and groups of churches do offer services to the poor and to the needy and also help in disasters…..in Katrina the Salvation Army and church groups did more to help people than the feds or state, in the early aftermath of the floods.
if you tax churches, it will set off consequences of new activities such as political participation….more like the Pre-Revolutionary churches activity in bringing about the separation from the oppressive English government…
Wow SKP TomV, that is some incendiary language. I might add that poor people who accidentally get pregnant are about equal in number to the wealthy ones. Only the wealthy ones pay for their own abortions. And no one is the wiser. But morality my donkey.
The callous inhumanity of your statement just boggled my mind. Just…. wow. Please tell me you are not a Christian.Abortion is only a small part of the services performed by Planned Parenthood. If you would go to one and ask about their full range of services, you’d see that. In addition to providing birth control, they provide basic health care (screenings, vaccines, physicals, et cetera), reproductive health care, STD testing, education, and a wide range of counseling services. They are there for the people who need them.But then by the looks of your post, you’re not really interested in anyone who helps others.
As usual, people aren’t arguing the main issue about abortion: Is a fetus a human life? Looked at through this lens, all the other arguments become secondary. Can a woman kill a human being because she does not want them? Can she kill them because they will cause her financial hardship? Can she kill another person because she has medical issues? Of course not. On the other hand, If a fetus is nothing more than a fleshy growth, then what right does anyone have to tell someone else to have a simple procedure to get rid of something she does not want, would be a financial burden, and cause a health risk? No sane person would take such a stand.
Same with the terms “pro-choice” and “pro-life.” I wish people would stop hiding from what they are really talking about. All laws limit choice. Legal issues around assisted suicide, marijuana use, or unlawful medical procedures are all about whether a choice should be made that ultimately affects what you can do with your body. Pro-life people tend to differ if that life belongs to a criminal on death row or a soldier being sent off to war.So, should we assign the notions of human life and human rights to a fetus? I’m frankly I’m ambivalent. We kill all the time, so the fact that a fetus is biologically living is not enough. Do we call it human and give it those rights? That’s the debate I’d like to see taken up.
As to Clark Kent’s argument that only women have the right to decide this issue – since as far as I know none of us here have the power to decide this issue, it appears he is more offended that a man is expressing an opinion he does not like on something he views as only about a woman’s right. Well, Clark, how dare you decide for women that they are overwhelmingly pro-choice? I will still deplore genocide in Africa, although I am not African. I will support gay rights although I am not gay, and I will support free speech – regardless of gender – even when I disagree with it.
“Tax payer funded planned parenthood, no tax money does not go directly to abortions but abortions are in the budget. "- Then you obviously do not want any taxpayer money to go into private insurance. Even the RNC has an insurer that does provide coverage for abortions. So the solution is obviously single payer.- And in contrast, all taxpayer money should be removed from Faith Based Initiatives, since SOME money might go to anti-gay churches and gays are citizens of the United States protected by the 1st & 14th Amendment. Hey, your logic.- I’ll save you some time for your next response: “Blah blah blah one note song.”- And my next response: “Blah blah blah one note ‘wah liberals and mommy government’ blah blah blah.”
Harley is clearly full of it on this issue. He’s never been one allow facts to sway his “beliefs” and it seems double for this issue. He will hate on what he want’s to hate on.
chrisnp…“As usual, people aren’t arguing the main issue about abortion: Is a fetus a human life? Looked at through this lens, all the other arguments become secondary. Can a woman kill a human being because she does not want them? Can she kill them because they will cause her financial hardship? Can she kill another person because she has medical issues?”
jase99… “The callous inhumanity of your statement just boggled my mind. Just…. wow. Please tell me you are not a Christian.”
Let’s look together at a situation that occured 2,000 years ago: Mary was getting married to an honorable man. She got pregnant out of wedlock. This was a disgrace to everyone. Joseph’s honorable choice would have been to turn his back and let Mary have a life of misery.
Planned Parenthood would have aborted Jesus the Christ.
The Bible records that the fetus, John the Baptist, recognized Mary when Mary visited an old Elisabeth. Elisabeth declares: “…blessed is the fruit of thy womb…the mother of my LORD…” (Luke 1:42-43)
Clearly, there is a distinct individual with personality and memory in the womb.
Christians are thankfull that Planned Parenthood was not around, then.
Eryx…“There is a failure rate for all forms of contraception, dumb@SS.”
You should be flagged for resorting to name calling.
Please present STATISTICS showing the percentage of persons going pregnant to PP that were following correct procedures for preventing pregnancy at the time of passion.
My unconfirmed impression is that the stats will be very low. Hence, they are brainless.
I know, no fair including incest. And when a female sceams RAPE, that requires a conviction before being excluded.
…Clark Kent…"Only 3 people on the supreme court have the right to judge this issue’
There is a challange to Gay Marriage financial rights in the Courts.Some say the Judge, who is Gay, should have withdrawn from the case. Others say only a Gay Judge has the right to judge the issue and Straight judges should be excluded.
Also, only divorced judges should handle divorces, Christians should judge fellow Christians, etc.
It sounds to me that your point should be considered along with the logic of the other points.
If the Supreme Court of the United States of America disagrees with you, you can still have Congress pass a law that suits you, providing the President of the United States doesn’t Veto it.It’s great to live in the USA.
Premeditated Murder may seem the only way to go. Usually, rationalization sooths the feelings of ‘wrong’ within. That’s why society protects itself by using a justice system.
One interpretation of the biblical prohibition of the man committing a sin if he “spills his seed” is that it might be a future “human”— so, is the Supreme Court supposed to ban masturbation??
If that’s the case then how do you explain the 501 c3? President Johnson made this specifically for churches so they would not involve themselves in politics (tax breaks for keeping your mouth shut? Why not). Now a days churches (like the Church of Jesus Christ of Lauderday Saints) are engaging in politics such as proposing anti-gay legislation. I think some of these guys need to be taxed for what they are doing.
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your posts, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific Bible laws and how to follow them.
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors complain to the zoning people. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. What do you think would be a fair price for her? She’s 18 and starting college. Will the slave buyer be required to continue to pay for her education by law ?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense and threaten to call Human Resources.
d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? ….Why can’t I own Canadians? Is there something wrong with tham due to the weather?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should this be a neighborhood improvement project ? What is a good day to start? Should we begin with small stones? Kind of lead up to it?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. I mean, a shrimp just isn’t the same as a you-know-what. Can you settle this?
g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Would contact lenses fall within some exception?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? The Mafia once took out Albert Anastasia in a barbershop, but I’m not Catholic; is this ecumenical thing a sign that it’s ok? I) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
I’ll have to take your word for it since, after all gramps, you’re ancient.
Last I checked churches are called “religious institutions”, not political think tanks or the like. If Reverend Wright wants to talk about re-electing Obama then he should lose is tax exempt status too. The first amendment protects against free speech but does not protect against taxation. So if any church wants to get into politics then let them pay for opening a stupid mouth.
Hi, Doc, was aware of the theory, also, therefore find it interesting so many kings blamed their WIVES if they didn’t have male offspring— that is in fact still way too common today.
Just one more proof that “bible vs biology” would make an interesting case for SCOTUS, with “bible” having to PROVE any of their case with valid evidence and PROOFs as required of any court case involving science, like forensics based on biologicals gathered at crime scenes as just one example.
Dtroutma almost 13 years ago
Does he keep his little blue pill between his knees to prevent pregnancy from his “woody”??
WarBush almost 13 years ago
Let’s add to the population, poverty, and illiteracy stats. After all, God deems it so. Alleged.
Jaedabee Premium Member almost 13 years ago
Straw man: Taxpayer funded abortion.
disgustedtaxpayer almost 13 years ago
Eryx….the Christian religion was always given exemption from certain taxes, while salary officials pay income and social security personal taxes.
The rational has always been that while a local church does not receive particular government benefits, costing the taxpayers nothing, the teachings benefit society by encouraging lawabiding citizens who usually do not require police expenditures, or welfare spending, etc…
Local and groups of churches do offer services to the poor and to the needy and also help in disasters…..in Katrina the Salvation Army and church groups did more to help people than the feds or state, in the early aftermath of the floods.
if you tax churches, it will set off consequences of new activities such as political participation….more like the Pre-Revolutionary churches activity in bringing about the separation from the oppressive English government…
Noveltman almost 13 years ago
Wow SKP TomV, that is some incendiary language. I might add that poor people who accidentally get pregnant are about equal in number to the wealthy ones. Only the wealthy ones pay for their own abortions. And no one is the wiser. But morality my donkey.
Jason Allen almost 13 years ago
The callous inhumanity of your statement just boggled my mind. Just…. wow. Please tell me you are not a Christian.Abortion is only a small part of the services performed by Planned Parenthood. If you would go to one and ask about their full range of services, you’d see that. In addition to providing birth control, they provide basic health care (screenings, vaccines, physicals, et cetera), reproductive health care, STD testing, education, and a wide range of counseling services. They are there for the people who need them.But then by the looks of your post, you’re not really interested in anyone who helps others.
Chrisnp almost 13 years ago
As usual, people aren’t arguing the main issue about abortion: Is a fetus a human life? Looked at through this lens, all the other arguments become secondary. Can a woman kill a human being because she does not want them? Can she kill them because they will cause her financial hardship? Can she kill another person because she has medical issues? Of course not. On the other hand, If a fetus is nothing more than a fleshy growth, then what right does anyone have to tell someone else to have a simple procedure to get rid of something she does not want, would be a financial burden, and cause a health risk? No sane person would take such a stand.
Same with the terms “pro-choice” and “pro-life.” I wish people would stop hiding from what they are really talking about. All laws limit choice. Legal issues around assisted suicide, marijuana use, or unlawful medical procedures are all about whether a choice should be made that ultimately affects what you can do with your body. Pro-life people tend to differ if that life belongs to a criminal on death row or a soldier being sent off to war.So, should we assign the notions of human life and human rights to a fetus? I’m frankly I’m ambivalent. We kill all the time, so the fact that a fetus is biologically living is not enough. Do we call it human and give it those rights? That’s the debate I’d like to see taken up.
As to Clark Kent’s argument that only women have the right to decide this issue – since as far as I know none of us here have the power to decide this issue, it appears he is more offended that a man is expressing an opinion he does not like on something he views as only about a woman’s right. Well, Clark, how dare you decide for women that they are overwhelmingly pro-choice? I will still deplore genocide in Africa, although I am not African. I will support gay rights although I am not gay, and I will support free speech – regardless of gender – even when I disagree with it.
Jaedabee Premium Member almost 13 years ago
“Tax payer funded planned parenthood, no tax money does not go directly to abortions but abortions are in the budget. "- Then you obviously do not want any taxpayer money to go into private insurance. Even the RNC has an insurer that does provide coverage for abortions. So the solution is obviously single payer.- And in contrast, all taxpayer money should be removed from Faith Based Initiatives, since SOME money might go to anti-gay churches and gays are citizens of the United States protected by the 1st & 14th Amendment. Hey, your logic.- I’ll save you some time for your next response: “Blah blah blah one note song.”- And my next response: “Blah blah blah one note ‘wah liberals and mommy government’ blah blah blah.”
Jason Allen almost 13 years ago
Harley is clearly full of it on this issue. He’s never been one allow facts to sway his “beliefs” and it seems double for this issue. He will hate on what he want’s to hate on.
Jaedabee Premium Member almost 13 years ago
There’s more churches in this world than Christian churches receiving taxpayer handouts. You’re full of it.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member almost 13 years ago
noverltman….“Only the wealthy ones pay for their own abortions.”
The topic was: ‘the burden on society and mother and father’.You are off topic. no comment.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member almost 13 years ago
chrisnp…“As usual, people aren’t arguing the main issue about abortion: Is a fetus a human life? Looked at through this lens, all the other arguments become secondary. Can a woman kill a human being because she does not want them? Can she kill them because they will cause her financial hardship? Can she kill another person because she has medical issues?”
Well said.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member almost 13 years ago
jase99… “The callous inhumanity of your statement just boggled my mind. Just…. wow. Please tell me you are not a Christian.”
Let’s look together at a situation that occured 2,000 years ago: Mary was getting married to an honorable man. She got pregnant out of wedlock. This was a disgrace to everyone. Joseph’s honorable choice would have been to turn his back and let Mary have a life of misery.
Planned Parenthood would have aborted Jesus the Christ.
The Bible records that the fetus, John the Baptist, recognized Mary when Mary visited an old Elisabeth. Elisabeth declares: “…blessed is the fruit of thy womb…the mother of my LORD…” (Luke 1:42-43)
Clearly, there is a distinct individual with personality and memory in the womb.
Christians are thankfull that Planned Parenthood was not around, then.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member almost 13 years ago
Eryx…“There is a failure rate for all forms of contraception, dumb@SS.”
You should be flagged for resorting to name calling.
Please present STATISTICS showing the percentage of persons going pregnant to PP that were following correct procedures for preventing pregnancy at the time of passion.
My unconfirmed impression is that the stats will be very low. Hence, they are brainless.
I know, no fair including incest. And when a female sceams RAPE, that requires a conviction before being excluded.
Please correct me, if I am wrong.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member almost 13 years ago
…Clark Kent…"Only 3 people on the supreme court have the right to judge this issue’
There is a challange to Gay Marriage financial rights in the Courts.Some say the Judge, who is Gay, should have withdrawn from the case. Others say only a Gay Judge has the right to judge the issue and Straight judges should be excluded.
Also, only divorced judges should handle divorces, Christians should judge fellow Christians, etc.
It sounds to me that your point should be considered along with the logic of the other points.
If the Supreme Court of the United States of America disagrees with you, you can still have Congress pass a law that suits you, providing the President of the United States doesn’t Veto it.It’s great to live in the USA.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member almost 13 years ago
…Eryx…“Please tell me you are not a Christian…you are entitled to your own mysticism”.
Why do you try to judge others by making Christian statements?
You have declared yourself to be non-Christian and consider Christians to be involved in ‘mysticism’.
So, What do you Christians now think about all that has spewed out of Eryx.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member almost 13 years ago
Premeditated Murder may seem the only way to go. Usually, rationalization sooths the feelings of ‘wrong’ within. That’s why society protects itself by using a justice system.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member almost 13 years ago
…Eryx…Mighty Cthulhu will devour you and all your relatives for even suggesting that I’m a x-tian."
Then stay away from: “Please tell me you are not a Christian”.
By the way, Cthulhu and you are welcome for dinner.
William Bednar Premium Member almost 13 years ago
This is even more poignant when you realize that the man in this toon is the baby’s father!
Dtroutma almost 13 years ago
One interpretation of the biblical prohibition of the man committing a sin if he “spills his seed” is that it might be a future “human”— so, is the Supreme Court supposed to ban masturbation??
WarBush almost 13 years ago
If that’s the case then how do you explain the 501 c3? President Johnson made this specifically for churches so they would not involve themselves in politics (tax breaks for keeping your mouth shut? Why not). Now a days churches (like the Church of Jesus Christ of Lauderday Saints) are engaging in politics such as proposing anti-gay legislation. I think some of these guys need to be taxed for what they are doing.
grayhares01 almost 13 years ago
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your posts, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific Bible laws and how to follow them.
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors complain to the zoning people. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. What do you think would be a fair price for her? She’s 18 and starting college. Will the slave buyer be required to continue to pay for her education by law ?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense and threaten to call Human Resources.
d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? ….Why can’t I own Canadians? Is there something wrong with tham due to the weather?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should this be a neighborhood improvement project ? What is a good day to start? Should we begin with small stones? Kind of lead up to it?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. I mean, a shrimp just isn’t the same as a you-know-what. Can you settle this?
g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Would contact lenses fall within some exception?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? The Mafia once took out Albert Anastasia in a barbershop, but I’m not Catholic; is this ecumenical thing a sign that it’s ok? I) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
d_legendary1 almost 13 years ago
I’ll have to take your word for it since, after all gramps, you’re ancient.
Last I checked churches are called “religious institutions”, not political think tanks or the like. If Reverend Wright wants to talk about re-electing Obama then he should lose is tax exempt status too. The first amendment protects against free speech but does not protect against taxation. So if any church wants to get into politics then let them pay for opening a stupid mouth.
Dtroutma almost 13 years ago
Hi, Doc, was aware of the theory, also, therefore find it interesting so many kings blamed their WIVES if they didn’t have male offspring— that is in fact still way too common today.
Just one more proof that “bible vs biology” would make an interesting case for SCOTUS, with “bible” having to PROVE any of their case with valid evidence and PROOFs as required of any court case involving science, like forensics based on biologicals gathered at crime scenes as just one example.