“believecommonsense,” please stay where you are and wander forever in your 3-I forest of Ignorance, Intolerance and Inanities.
I am Proud Texan from San Antonio who never believed the Alamo heroes won anything but valuable time for Sam Houston and a bier for their ashes for their sacrifice.
And THAT, sir, is not rewriting history as Mr. Toles wants the rest of the people in the world, in their ignorance (NOT stupidity, check the dictionary for the difference) to believe of us Texans.
That we are proud of our heritage does not make us stupid, regardless of what you try to tell yourself.
Bill, the school board is removing facts from the textbooks (and adding in new propaganda), which means the next generation of Texans will be that much more ignorant. You know your history, but will the next generation? Toles is using humorous exaggeration.
Having read a list of the changes they are making, it’s clear they want to create ignorance. This is not stupidity per se because it is well calculated, and they know exactly what they’re doing. It is, however, evil.
By the way, I have relatives in Texas, so I know there are smart Texans out there – but they’re also mad as heII about this.
No, Blazin’, there’s a business issue. The Texas board decides all textbooks for the entire state, which is not true of most other states. Therefore a huge percentage of the US school-age population will all need the same textbook in Texas alone. In order to avoid making a zillion specialized versions, most textbook companies make a pragmatic decision to aim at the largest single population, which means if you’re Rhode Island or Alaska or South Dakota, you’re out of luck, and either have to pay more to get your own or accept Texas’ version. It has nothing to do with politics at all, nor of educational quality – it’s about how many textbooks you can sell.
And that’s why this is such a pernicious issue. Texas should not have the right to decide everyone’s textbooks, especially when it is not based on mainstream (not liberal) history or science, or even consulting any experts but using their own individual biases. And in the past they’ve explicitly ignored the recommendations of top Texan education organizations, including teachers, professors, scientists, you name it.
This could be the iceberg that sinks the printed standard textbook business. Not right away, but when it does finally sink, this could be the collision they look back to. Thousands of disgusted history and social studies teachers around the country tell their principals, “forget the tex(as)tbook, let’s use the funds to compile our own materials from online sources.”
^^ Anthony, I didn’t hear this, but it’s priceless. There is evidently a deep distrust of education and expertise in some quarters. And for no good reason. Education is not elitist. Anyone can become better educated. Knowledge is there for the person who wants to know and to think.
Bill Ewing, motive got the answer first. The Texas school board is removing facts they don’t like, removing Thomas Jefferson from historical mention and substituting their own favored opinions. It’s unfortunate that what one school board in Texas decides has such a far-reaching affect on textbooks for the entire county.
My reference to Texas being land of fantasy and ignorance meant to describe the school board and its actions, not t he state. So I’ll apologize to you, I didn’t mean the Texas people, but, then, would y’all consider electing a new school board?
Hmmm, what do you expect when their engineering school is called “The Aggies”?
While Texas is big, thus has mandated school texts for a long time- where will we go if the decision goes “bigger” to Alaska, and Sarah is on the board?
What else could you expect from a state that let the Bush family put people into power. Barbara should be ashamed for letting her little boys bring about the downfall of this country.
The person who said “Someone has to stand up to experts” is Don McLeroy, a dentist (wouldn’t want him drilling *my* teeth) and young-earth creationist. He lost his bid to be District 9’s representative to the Texas state board of education.
The board’s revisions to science standards were widely deplored, with the head of the White House Office of Science and Technology describing it as “a step backward” and the Austin American-Statesman (April 1, 2009) editorially complaining, “Don McLeroy, Dunbar and others have turned the education board into a national joke. But when it comes to teaching Texas children, what they have done is not funny.” But McLeroy was unabashed. “Our science standards are light years ahead of any other state when it comes to challenging evolution,” he told the Washington Monthly (January/February 2010), adding, “Evolution is hooey.”
The video of his moment of “glory” is here: http://www.youtube.com/user/NatCen4ScienceEd
Blazin’ B, are you referring to me? I posted his exact quote with a link to a video. Or are you claiming that young-earth creationism is legitimately science? Ha!
Premature? Gosh, so much for that 400 years of physics, 200 years of geology, 150 years of evolutionary theory, 200+ years of biology…yeah, we’re jumping the gun here.
In fact, evolutionary theory has no “time problem on the Earth” - certainly not compared to “young-Earth creationists” - the “missing link” comment is merely ignorant (we can trace links step by step through many species, and the “missing link” concept was never part of evolutionary theory), and name ONE SINGLE STATISTIC (or, more properly, datum) that will “militate against an aged cosmos.” So far, all of physics and geology works very much in favor of it.
ICR is not science; it is forcing anything they can into Genesis. They do not even look at data that contradicts their dogma. And there’s not a thing on that site that hasn’t been debunked by real scientists. Try http://ncse.com/.
Considering the fact that only 400 years ago we just figured out that BLOOD circulates and know we’re parsing out DNA molecule by molecule, I don’t know how you can claim that the conclusions being drawn are “premature”. EVERYTHING we’ve learned since we’ve been paying attention to objective scientific evidence has led us further and further away from that was “common knowledge” when we trusted biblical authority for our understanding on things. There have been missteps and corrections, but the BIGGEST misapprehensions have all involved people trying to make scientific findings conform to preconceived notions of what religion has said “must be so.”
Whatever our level of knowledge is, the priests have always pointed to what we don’t know YET and said “That’s where God is.” The scientists are continually filling in the blanks and simultaneously opening new areas of investigation, so God must be having a hell of a time trying to “stick and move, stick and move” to keep to the shadows…
A typical puppy comment to say that “evolutionists” have a time problem, yet have no problem with Egyptian recorded history existing before the creationists’ beginning of time.
And perhaps George Washington should feel lucky that he gets to have even a single paragraph, since Thomas Jefferson doesn’t even get that.
What will happen when a Texas school child asks his teacher who is on our nickel? Will the teacher have to reply, “Oh, that’s just some traitor that evil liberals put on there! Never ask about him again”?
^^^^^ “As far as “Science,” uhhh, yeah I am. For “wise men” in this early stage of accumulated knowledge - you guys are awfully premature. You evolutionists know you have a time problem on the Earth and besides the pittance of fossils; let alone those showing missing link status; you also have a number stats which militate against an aged cosmos. Stats = Science. Go to icr.org and see for yourself.”
What??? Time problem? Pittance of fossils? What planet is he talking about?
Puppy, you lost your arguments before you started by using only “icr.org” as your source.
Take a look at the agreement “scientists” must sign before joining the ICR…the one where they swear to only produce papers consistent with the literal interpretation of Genesis,and suppress anything else.
Not quite science, you know.
For instance, how can we see the light from stars that are millions of miles away if the universe is only 6000 years old? The only possible ICR answer: “Uh, god works in mysterious ways…”
It would be fun to go back to a time before the fundies’ creation and ask the ancient Egyptian historians how it feels to be recording history that occurred before they and their planet were created!
Will be happy to oblige, Dr. Canuck, but it’s in a book I have at home, and I’m touring Ireland at the moment, so I won’t have access to it for a week or so. And since I’m sitting in a hotel lobby in Dublin using a pitiful little netbook computer, I don’t have the time nor resources to do much in the way of Googling (although you’ll find reference to the signing statement if you look at the first link from a Google of “institute of creation research signing statement”)…but for now you’ll have to take it from there.
Puppy, it’s both sad and hilarious for you to use the terms “self-serving propaganda and hearsay” in the same thread as your use of the ICR as a source.
Sorry about assuming you were going with the 6000 year figure, Puppy…I didn’t realize you were just picking and choosing from the ICR’s self-serving propaganda and heresay.
Will try and check in tomorrow if our next bed and breakfast has internet access…
believecommonsense about 14 years ago
Texas, Land of Ignorance and Fantasy
grapfhics about 14 years ago
I hear tell Fess Parker died, bleeep shame that is.
the word means to condemn, oops that looks similar to me.
willikiii about 14 years ago
“believecommonsense,” please stay where you are and wander forever in your 3-I forest of Ignorance, Intolerance and Inanities.
I am Proud Texan from San Antonio who never believed the Alamo heroes won anything but valuable time for Sam Houston and a bier for their ashes for their sacrifice.
And THAT, sir, is not rewriting history as Mr. Toles wants the rest of the people in the world, in their ignorance (NOT stupidity, check the dictionary for the difference) to believe of us Texans.
That we are proud of our heritage does not make us stupid, regardless of what you try to tell yourself.
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
Bill, the school board is removing facts from the textbooks (and adding in new propaganda), which means the next generation of Texans will be that much more ignorant. You know your history, but will the next generation? Toles is using humorous exaggeration.
cdward about 14 years ago
Having read a list of the changes they are making, it’s clear they want to create ignorance. This is not stupidity per se because it is well calculated, and they know exactly what they’re doing. It is, however, evil.
By the way, I have relatives in Texas, so I know there are smart Texans out there – but they’re also mad as heII about this.
Jaedabee Premium Member about 14 years ago
“which means the next generation of Texans will be that much more ignorant”
Not just Texans, supposedly. They buy the most textbooks so the thinking is that it will affect more than just their own textbooks.TruthfulTheocracy about 14 years ago
I approve what Texas is doing. People need to know that my hero Reagan gave me work in the United States.
bradwilliams about 14 years ago
Jade,
I heard that to. How is that possible? I would think CA and NY would have a bigger influence. How many school are in TX anyway?
mancocapac about 14 years ago
Bill is proud of his TX-style and TX-sized ignorance!
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
No, Blazin’, there’s a business issue. The Texas board decides all textbooks for the entire state, which is not true of most other states. Therefore a huge percentage of the US school-age population will all need the same textbook in Texas alone. In order to avoid making a zillion specialized versions, most textbook companies make a pragmatic decision to aim at the largest single population, which means if you’re Rhode Island or Alaska or South Dakota, you’re out of luck, and either have to pay more to get your own or accept Texas’ version. It has nothing to do with politics at all, nor of educational quality – it’s about how many textbooks you can sell. And that’s why this is such a pernicious issue. Texas should not have the right to decide everyone’s textbooks, especially when it is not based on mainstream (not liberal) history or science, or even consulting any experts but using their own individual biases. And in the past they’ve explicitly ignored the recommendations of top Texan education organizations, including teachers, professors, scientists, you name it.
Dmajor about 14 years ago
This could be the iceberg that sinks the printed standard textbook business. Not right away, but when it does finally sink, this could be the collision they look back to. Thousands of disgusted history and social studies teachers around the country tell their principals, “forget the tex(as)tbook, let’s use the funds to compile our own materials from online sources.”
treered about 14 years ago
can the US Dept of Ed have these new books classed as “propaganda”?
riley05 about 14 years ago
I loved it when the Texas school board member said, “We have to stand up to the experts!”
Says it all.
They want to force their ignorance on everyone.
lonecat about 14 years ago
^ ahab, you are so correct.
^^ Anthony, I didn’t hear this, but it’s priceless. There is evidently a deep distrust of education and expertise in some quarters. And for no good reason. Education is not elitist. Anyone can become better educated. Knowledge is there for the person who wants to know and to think.
zekedog55 about 14 years ago
“….is our children learning?”
“People object to the way I swagger…in Texas, we call that walkin’!”
Poor Laura. She was a librarian when they met…
believecommonsense about 14 years ago
Bill Ewing, motive got the answer first. The Texas school board is removing facts they don’t like, removing Thomas Jefferson from historical mention and substituting their own favored opinions. It’s unfortunate that what one school board in Texas decides has such a far-reaching affect on textbooks for the entire county.
My reference to Texas being land of fantasy and ignorance meant to describe the school board and its actions, not t he state. So I’ll apologize to you, I didn’t mean the Texas people, but, then, would y’all consider electing a new school board?
Jaedabee Premium Member about 14 years ago
“I loved it when the Texas school board member said, “We have to stand up to the experts!””
Experts are elitists. They “know” stuff like “facts.” That’s not in tune with “real” Americans.Dtroutma about 14 years ago
Hmmm, what do you expect when their engineering school is called “The Aggies”?
While Texas is big, thus has mandated school texts for a long time- where will we go if the decision goes “bigger” to Alaska, and Sarah is on the board?
nerual53 Premium Member about 14 years ago
What else could you expect from a state that let the Bush family put people into power. Barbara should be ashamed for letting her little boys bring about the downfall of this country.
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
The person who said “Someone has to stand up to experts” is Don McLeroy, a dentist (wouldn’t want him drilling *my* teeth) and young-earth creationist. He lost his bid to be District 9’s representative to the Texas state board of education. The board’s revisions to science standards were widely deplored, with the head of the White House Office of Science and Technology describing it as “a step backward” and the Austin American-Statesman (April 1, 2009) editorially complaining, “Don McLeroy, Dunbar and others have turned the education board into a national joke. But when it comes to teaching Texas children, what they have done is not funny.” But McLeroy was unabashed. “Our science standards are light years ahead of any other state when it comes to challenging evolution,” he told the Washington Monthly (January/February 2010), adding, “Evolution is hooey.” The video of his moment of “glory” is here: http://www.youtube.com/user/NatCen4ScienceEd
lonecat about 14 years ago
^^ motive, thanks for this information. It is indeed shameful.
fritzoid Premium Member about 14 years ago
“Our science standards are light years ahead of any other state when it comes to challenging evolution.”
What do you bet he also thinks a light-year is a measurement of time?
For those of you who only haunt the Editorial section of goComics, check out this week’s “Tom the Dancing Bug.”
http://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2010/03/19/
Dtroutma about 14 years ago
MM- “District 9”??? Hmmm, just watched the movie- it fits.
lonecat about 14 years ago
trout – was it worth watching?
lonecat about 14 years ago
^^ fritz – is this amazing discovery covered in the Texas textbooks?
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
Blazin’ B, are you referring to me? I posted his exact quote with a link to a video. Or are you claiming that young-earth creationism is legitimately science? Ha!
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
Premature? Gosh, so much for that 400 years of physics, 200 years of geology, 150 years of evolutionary theory, 200+ years of biology…yeah, we’re jumping the gun here. In fact, evolutionary theory has no “time problem on the Earth” - certainly not compared to “young-Earth creationists” - the “missing link” comment is merely ignorant (we can trace links step by step through many species, and the “missing link” concept was never part of evolutionary theory), and name ONE SINGLE STATISTIC (or, more properly, datum) that will “militate against an aged cosmos.” So far, all of physics and geology works very much in favor of it. ICR is not science; it is forcing anything they can into Genesis. They do not even look at data that contradicts their dogma. And there’s not a thing on that site that hasn’t been debunked by real scientists. Try http://ncse.com/.
fritzoid Premium Member about 14 years ago
Considering the fact that only 400 years ago we just figured out that BLOOD circulates and know we’re parsing out DNA molecule by molecule, I don’t know how you can claim that the conclusions being drawn are “premature”. EVERYTHING we’ve learned since we’ve been paying attention to objective scientific evidence has led us further and further away from that was “common knowledge” when we trusted biblical authority for our understanding on things. There have been missteps and corrections, but the BIGGEST misapprehensions have all involved people trying to make scientific findings conform to preconceived notions of what religion has said “must be so.”
Whatever our level of knowledge is, the priests have always pointed to what we don’t know YET and said “That’s where God is.” The scientists are continually filling in the blanks and simultaneously opening new areas of investigation, so God must be having a hell of a time trying to “stick and move, stick and move” to keep to the shadows…
riley05 about 14 years ago
A typical puppy comment to say that “evolutionists” have a time problem, yet have no problem with Egyptian recorded history existing before the creationists’ beginning of time.
And perhaps George Washington should feel lucky that he gets to have even a single paragraph, since Thomas Jefferson doesn’t even get that.
What will happen when a Texas school child asks his teacher who is on our nickel? Will the teacher have to reply, “Oh, that’s just some traitor that evil liberals put on there! Never ask about him again”?
lonecat about 14 years ago
^^^^^ “As far as “Science,” uhhh, yeah I am. For “wise men” in this early stage of accumulated knowledge - you guys are awfully premature. You evolutionists know you have a time problem on the Earth and besides the pittance of fossils; let alone those showing missing link status; you also have a number stats which militate against an aged cosmos. Stats = Science. Go to icr.org and see for yourself.”
What??? Time problem? Pittance of fossils? What planet is he talking about?
riley05 about 14 years ago
Puppy, you lost your arguments before you started by using only “icr.org” as your source.
Take a look at the agreement “scientists” must sign before joining the ICR…the one where they swear to only produce papers consistent with the literal interpretation of Genesis,and suppress anything else.
Not quite science, you know.
For instance, how can we see the light from stars that are millions of miles away if the universe is only 6000 years old? The only possible ICR answer: “Uh, god works in mysterious ways…”
It would be fun to go back to a time before the fundies’ creation and ask the ancient Egyptian historians how it feels to be recording history that occurred before they and their planet were created!
riley05 about 14 years ago
Will be happy to oblige, Dr. Canuck, but it’s in a book I have at home, and I’m touring Ireland at the moment, so I won’t have access to it for a week or so. And since I’m sitting in a hotel lobby in Dublin using a pitiful little netbook computer, I don’t have the time nor resources to do much in the way of Googling (although you’ll find reference to the signing statement if you look at the first link from a Google of “institute of creation research signing statement”)…but for now you’ll have to take it from there.
Puppy, it’s both sad and hilarious for you to use the terms “self-serving propaganda and hearsay” in the same thread as your use of the ICR as a source.
Sorry about assuming you were going with the 6000 year figure, Puppy…I didn’t realize you were just picking and choosing from the ICR’s self-serving propaganda and heresay.
Will try and check in tomorrow if our next bed and breakfast has internet access…
riley05 about 14 years ago
Ok, I’m back. Are you still around, Dr. Canuck?