The GOP attacks, never defends, if the DEMS do something it is wrong, unamerican, and evil, if it is pointed out that the GOP has done the same thing, they reply that what the DEMS are doing wrong, unamerican, and evil.
That’s why attacks never bother or stick to the GOP. You can say what you want, show them the facts and the truth, and like the elephant they are they will just keep plowing on.
And, to compound what Churchill said, Obama was actually CORRECT in stating that reconciliation is a budgetary maneuver, not a means of changing the way the entire country functions in a significant fashion.
Church, your statement applies no less to both parties - those who defended the use of reconciliation then oppose it now. Positions have changed, otherwise it’s the same thing. Hypocricy exists on both sides.
Obama basically tells the GOP that if they want to fillibuster, the Dems should bypass it, just like the GOP used reconcilliation to bypass Dem fillibusters. I don’t like it much, personally, but I think healthcare reform (even in its current half-neutered state) would be an improvement, and the Dems can’t seem to find a spine to do it otherwise.
Ironically, the CBO noted that the last available bill would reduce deficits, so Obama has somewhat of a leg to stand on. Both Senate and House have already approved similar bills in the past, as well - they just haven’t approved the same bill.
I say that we restore the Filibuster to the point where tyou have to stand up in congress reading fromt he phone book for as along as you want to stall legislation.
The CBO can only go by the facts that it is given. In this case 10 years of tax collecting for revenue on 6 years of benefits paid out. To top it off it assumes that the program will stay on budget, which no other entitlement program or gov’t agency has been able to do.
Obama has a crooked leg to stand on. CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!
Reconciliation is just a band aid to the filibuster. The real solution is to abolish the filibuster. It is totally undemocratic for 41% of the senate (representing 10% of the population) to jam up the democratic system. Democracy means majority rule. (And don’t tell me the Democrats used the filibuster too. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it.)
BOTH sides are hypocrites on Reconciliation and BOTH sides have used it to pass non-budgetary bills. But a “complicated undemocratic process” it is not. A “nuclear option” it is not. Republicans call it the “constitutional option” they wish they could use “every year” when they are in power.
Non-budgetary amendments can’t be added to the health care bill at this point. It is up to the Senate parliamentarian to decide which parts are budgetary. Health care is budgetary. The CBO, which is bi-partisan, projects a 1 trillion dollar reduction to the deficit in 20 years. The CBO is the “metric” for measures, Democrat or Republican. It doesn’t suddenly become “wrong” just because we’re not passing solely Republican legislation.
If the “pouty Newt” approach was thrown out, and the “loyal opposition” would function- it would help. We got into Iraq on a lie, and accusations that anyone in opposition was a “traitor”. Boehner and McConnel should both serve six months in Afghanistan- as patrol point men, then come back with perhaps some initiative to get back to work, or come back in a box?
Okay…back to the cartoon…I need to point out to Mr. Toles:
We are not a Democracy.
Never have been.
We are a Republic. We are governed by laws, not by men.
Stuperfan said,”We are not a democracy. Never have been. We are a republic. We are ruled by laws, not men.”
America is a Democratic Republic: A Democratic Republic is form of government in which a constitution is followed and the citizens delegate authority to elect their leaders and representatives.
Democracy means a government of the people and Republic means voting our elected officials. Its both.
Churchill I never said you couldn’t respond to Anthony. My response was in reference to your never ending obsession that the dems are the worst hypocrites of all.
“Here’s a right wing link to prove to you liberals that your guys are crooked. Look at what x Senator said about wiping with the left hand when they clearly wipe with the right. Ha ha ha.”
I could post all the things war bush said and the things he did after making his remarks but I’m not inclined to play that game. It takes away from the real issue which is getting health care insurance for everyone.
kennethcwarren64 about 14 years ago
The GOP attacks, never defends, if the DEMS do something it is wrong, unamerican, and evil, if it is pointed out that the GOP has done the same thing, they reply that what the DEMS are doing wrong, unamerican, and evil.
That’s why attacks never bother or stick to the GOP. You can say what you want, show them the facts and the truth, and like the elephant they are they will just keep plowing on.
jaxaction about 14 years ago
complicated=majority wins. they have a heath care plan for self-deafness…or a simple ear cleaning…
HabaneroBuck about 14 years ago
And, to compound what Churchill said, Obama was actually CORRECT in stating that reconciliation is a budgetary maneuver, not a means of changing the way the entire country functions in a significant fashion.
4uk4ata about 14 years ago
Church, your statement applies no less to both parties - those who defended the use of reconciliation then oppose it now. Positions have changed, otherwise it’s the same thing. Hypocricy exists on both sides.
Obama basically tells the GOP that if they want to fillibuster, the Dems should bypass it, just like the GOP used reconcilliation to bypass Dem fillibusters. I don’t like it much, personally, but I think healthcare reform (even in its current half-neutered state) would be an improvement, and the Dems can’t seem to find a spine to do it otherwise.
Ironically, the CBO noted that the last available bill would reduce deficits, so Obama has somewhat of a leg to stand on. Both Senate and House have already approved similar bills in the past, as well - they just haven’t approved the same bill.
AdmNaismith about 14 years ago
I say that we restore the Filibuster to the point where tyou have to stand up in congress reading fromt he phone book for as along as you want to stall legislation.
wminfield about 14 years ago
The CBO can only go by the facts that it is given. In this case 10 years of tax collecting for revenue on 6 years of benefits paid out. To top it off it assumes that the program will stay on budget, which no other entitlement program or gov’t agency has been able to do.
Obama has a crooked leg to stand on. CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!
Motivemagus about 14 years ago
How about an “up or down vote,” the way the GOP demanded for Bush, eh?
benbrilling about 14 years ago
Reconciliation is just a band aid to the filibuster. The real solution is to abolish the filibuster. It is totally undemocratic for 41% of the senate (representing 10% of the population) to jam up the democratic system. Democracy means majority rule. (And don’t tell me the Democrats used the filibuster too. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it.)
Jaedabee Premium Member about 14 years ago
BOTH sides are hypocrites on Reconciliation and BOTH sides have used it to pass non-budgetary bills. But a “complicated undemocratic process” it is not. A “nuclear option” it is not. Republicans call it the “constitutional option” they wish they could use “every year” when they are in power.
riley05 about 14 years ago
Church seems concerned that if reconciliation is used, we wouldn’t get “a full and fair debate”.
Uh, watched any news during the last year, Church?
Herbabee about 14 years ago
That’s our Mitch - no eyebrows, no eyelashes, no chin… and that’s just for starters!
Jaedabee Premium Member about 14 years ago
Non-budgetary amendments can’t be added to the health care bill at this point. It is up to the Senate parliamentarian to decide which parts are budgetary. Health care is budgetary. The CBO, which is bi-partisan, projects a 1 trillion dollar reduction to the deficit in 20 years. The CBO is the “metric” for measures, Democrat or Republican. It doesn’t suddenly become “wrong” just because we’re not passing solely Republican legislation.
jaxaction about 14 years ago
as lame as the bill is…no public op-(yet), if it passes drug fiend mush limb will leave next tues after it passes, added bonus.
d_legendary1 about 14 years ago
Church didn’t you hear Jade say that there is hypocrisy on both sides? Or are you one of these “Democrat bad, Republican good” types?
Amen Ahab!
Dtroutma about 14 years ago
If the “pouty Newt” approach was thrown out, and the “loyal opposition” would function- it would help. We got into Iraq on a lie, and accusations that anyone in opposition was a “traitor”. Boehner and McConnel should both serve six months in Afghanistan- as patrol point men, then come back with perhaps some initiative to get back to work, or come back in a box?
Stuperfan Premium Member about 14 years ago
Okay…back to the cartoon…I need to point out to Mr. Toles: We are not a Democracy. Never have been. We are a Republic. We are governed by laws, not by men.
HarryS about 14 years ago
I’d say alot of these fellows don’t know any more about politics than a pig knows about Sunday.
TruthfulTheocracy about 14 years ago
Stuperfan said,”We are not a democracy. Never have been. We are a republic. We are ruled by laws, not men.”
America is a Democratic Republic: A Democratic Republic is form of government in which a constitution is followed and the citizens delegate authority to elect their leaders and representatives.
Democracy means a government of the people and Republic means voting our elected officials. Its both.
d_legendary1 about 14 years ago
Churchill I never said you couldn’t respond to Anthony. My response was in reference to your never ending obsession that the dems are the worst hypocrites of all.
“Here’s a right wing link to prove to you liberals that your guys are crooked. Look at what x Senator said about wiping with the left hand when they clearly wipe with the right. Ha ha ha.”
I could post all the things war bush said and the things he did after making his remarks but I’m not inclined to play that game. It takes away from the real issue which is getting health care insurance for everyone.