On a slightly more serious note, I find myself in a quandry. Caught on the horns of a dilemma. On the one hand, I’d like to see the economy pick up more, especially on the employment side, for all sorts of reasons too obvious to need explication. On the other hand, I worry that the kind of economy we have now is heading for environmental disaster. Somehow we have to figure out how to create a sustainable and prosperous economic system. And for the whole world, not just for us here in the First World. If you take the average energy use of someone in the US and multiply it by the total world population, you get a number that is not sustainable. I’m inclined to think that neither traditional capitalism nor traditional socialism can figure this out. We need an entirely new model.
disgustedtaxpayer said, 5 minutes ago I’m a Free Enterprise conservative and I believe in private property and private business and the Profit goal, from farmers to manufacturers. But this cartoon points to the movement to erase Christ-mas from US culture….and sadly,Jolly Santa’s name can be rearranged to spell “Satan”….the enemy of God and of the Saviour Jesus that came to give himself as payment for mankind’s sins…..that the celebration of Christmas symbolizes.-P.S. and Thanksgiving originally was a day to Thank the Lord God for His many blessings to Mankind and especially to the numbers of the persons in the Faith. Also the target of Satan.
" But of course he likes the shiftless poor as they vote Democrat."Is this really true? Or are there a surprising number of “shiftless poor” who vote Republican against their own best interest, and shift what value they have to the top 1%?
Of course you were being snide. If you care, my bedside book at the moment isn’t Erhlich, it’s “Reading the Old Testament: Method in Biblical Study”, by John Barton. I was never a fan of Ehrilch. That doesn’t mean that I have no concerns about population. The greater the population, the greater the load on the environment. I expect we will continue to find ways to keep going, but at what price? For instance, I don’t believe that we’ve hit peak oil, and I think there’s some reason to believe that we never will. On the one hand, that’s good, because running out of oil would cause problems, but on the other hand that’s bad, because burning oil is not good for the environment. My own hunch is that we will probably go for more nuclear power, with the attendant risks. Anyway, I think the Simon-Erhlich wager is silly, and not to the point I was making in the first place. Here’s a couple of quotes:
Economists have noted that Ehrlich would likely have won if the bet had been for a different ten-year period. Asset manager Jeremy Grantham wrote that if the Simon–Ehrlich wager had been for a longer period (from 1980 to 2011), then Simon would have lost on four of the five metals. He also noted that if the wager had been expanded to “all of the most important commodities,” instead of just five metals, over that longer period of 1980 to 2011, then Simon would have lost “by a lot.” He concluded, "So, please “Cornucopians,” let’s not hear any more of the Ehrlich-Simon bet … Ehrlich’s argument was right (so far)."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/08/opinion/sunday/betting-on-the-apocalypse.html?_r=0Setting aside the vagaries of market forces, can we continue to increase resource production and adapt to unprecedented environmental changes like global warming? Our past experience should give us some hope, but that hope should be greatly tempered by the realization that climate change is an unprecedented threat, and we really might not keep pace. Mr. Simon liked to argue that new problems prompt solutions that ultimately leave people better off than before. But we cannot surmount our challenges if we simply deny that they exist. Instead of using science as a resource for human betterment, conservatives who reject the evidence of human-caused global warming prevent the very creative problem-solving that Mr. Simon advocated. And if environmentalists like Mr. Ehrlich hadn’t urged action back in the 1970s, would all that creativity have been channeled into the cleaner air and water that we enjoy today? We face choices about our future direction. As Mr. Ehrlich and many other environmental scientists have documented, by pouring carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, we put things we value and love in danger, from the coral reefs to the Jersey Shore, from homes threatened by wildfire to farms endangered by drought. And even if Mr. Simon is right that humans can adapt and prosper on this rapidly changing planet, we have to ask ourselves whether the risks and inequalities of this change are desirable. Ultimately, humanity’s course will be determined less by iron laws of nature or by unbounded market powers, Mr. Ehrlich and Mr. Simon’s dueling lodestars, and more by the social and political choices that we make. Neither biology nor economics can substitute for the deeper ethical question: what kind of world do we want to live in? Paul Sabin is an associate professor of American history at Yale and the author of “The Bet: Paul Ehrlich, Julian Simon, and Our Gamble Over Earth’s Future.”
Anthony 2816 GoComics PRO Member said, about 16 hours ago @disgustedtaxpayer “I’m a Free Enterprise conservative”Yeah, who also takes full advantage of Medicare. What a hypocrite you are.—(????)……(what is your problem?)Congress made it illegal for a private insurance policy to cover basic Medicare, the only possible private insurance is “supplemental” tied to what Medicare approves, for the % Medicare does not pay.-Congress put retirees who paid SSA and Medicare taxes into a Gulag “situation”….either that or pay all medical expenses with “cash” until your income and savings and property are gone! -Conservatives wanted voluntary healthcare savings accounts; Private, not the federal dole.-Ruff GoComics PRO Member said, 1 day ago @disgustedtaxpayer “to: disgustedtaxpayer’s’Happy Hanukkah…(end quote)-Happy Hanukkah to you also. Jesus (John 10: 22-23) observed Hanukkah (Feast of the Dedication) that celebrated the overthrow of Tyrant Antiochus 4, who had desecrated the Temple and tried to force the Jews to stop observing Moses’ laws for obeying God in worship. The miracle of one day’s Kosher oil burning for 8 days while new Kosher oil was made, is the reason for the 9-branch Menorah (I have one) for Hanukkah. God bless His Chosen People and may all of them come to know Yeshua as their Messiah, who is soon coming to save Israel and begin the Kingdom. Shalom.
Odon Premium Member over 10 years ago
Customer participation is entirely optional.
lonecat over 10 years ago
Do you mean “You didn’t build that”?
lonecat over 10 years ago
On a slightly more serious note, I find myself in a quandry. Caught on the horns of a dilemma. On the one hand, I’d like to see the economy pick up more, especially on the employment side, for all sorts of reasons too obvious to need explication. On the other hand, I worry that the kind of economy we have now is heading for environmental disaster. Somehow we have to figure out how to create a sustainable and prosperous economic system. And for the whole world, not just for us here in the First World. If you take the average energy use of someone in the US and multiply it by the total world population, you get a number that is not sustainable. I’m inclined to think that neither traditional capitalism nor traditional socialism can figure this out. We need an entirely new model.
disgustedtaxpayer over 10 years ago
disgustedtaxpayer said, 5 minutes ago I’m a Free Enterprise conservative and I believe in private property and private business and the Profit goal, from farmers to manufacturers. But this cartoon points to the movement to erase Christ-mas from US culture….and sadly,Jolly Santa’s name can be rearranged to spell “Satan”….the enemy of God and of the Saviour Jesus that came to give himself as payment for mankind’s sins…..that the celebration of Christmas symbolizes.-P.S. and Thanksgiving originally was a day to Thank the Lord God for His many blessings to Mankind and especially to the numbers of the persons in the Faith. Also the target of Satan.
lonecat over 10 years ago
You could engage in serious discussion rather than just being snide.
lonecat over 10 years ago
Little Lonecat in Slumberland.
riley05 over 10 years ago
" But of course he likes the shiftless poor as they vote Democrat."Is this really true? Or are there a surprising number of “shiftless poor” who vote Republican against their own best interest, and shift what value they have to the top 1%?
riley05 over 10 years ago
I do believe the Republicans are very good at getting people to vote against their own best interest.
lonecat over 10 years ago
Well, I won’t expect serious discussion from you, then.
lonecat over 10 years ago
Of course you were being snide. If you care, my bedside book at the moment isn’t Erhlich, it’s “Reading the Old Testament: Method in Biblical Study”, by John Barton. I was never a fan of Ehrilch. That doesn’t mean that I have no concerns about population. The greater the population, the greater the load on the environment. I expect we will continue to find ways to keep going, but at what price? For instance, I don’t believe that we’ve hit peak oil, and I think there’s some reason to believe that we never will. On the one hand, that’s good, because running out of oil would cause problems, but on the other hand that’s bad, because burning oil is not good for the environment. My own hunch is that we will probably go for more nuclear power, with the attendant risks. Anyway, I think the Simon-Erhlich wager is silly, and not to the point I was making in the first place. Here’s a couple of quotes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon%E2%80%93Ehrlich_wager
Economists have noted that Ehrlich would likely have won if the bet had been for a different ten-year period. Asset manager Jeremy Grantham wrote that if the Simon–Ehrlich wager had been for a longer period (from 1980 to 2011), then Simon would have lost on four of the five metals. He also noted that if the wager had been expanded to “all of the most important commodities,” instead of just five metals, over that longer period of 1980 to 2011, then Simon would have lost “by a lot.” He concluded, "So, please “Cornucopians,” let’s not hear any more of the Ehrlich-Simon bet … Ehrlich’s argument was right (so far)."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/08/opinion/sunday/betting-on-the-apocalypse.html?_r=0Setting aside the vagaries of market forces, can we continue to increase resource production and adapt to unprecedented environmental changes like global warming? Our past experience should give us some hope, but that hope should be greatly tempered by the realization that climate change is an unprecedented threat, and we really might not keep pace. Mr. Simon liked to argue that new problems prompt solutions that ultimately leave people better off than before. But we cannot surmount our challenges if we simply deny that they exist. Instead of using science as a resource for human betterment, conservatives who reject the evidence of human-caused global warming prevent the very creative problem-solving that Mr. Simon advocated. And if environmentalists like Mr. Ehrlich hadn’t urged action back in the 1970s, would all that creativity have been channeled into the cleaner air and water that we enjoy today? We face choices about our future direction. As Mr. Ehrlich and many other environmental scientists have documented, by pouring carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, we put things we value and love in danger, from the coral reefs to the Jersey Shore, from homes threatened by wildfire to farms endangered by drought. And even if Mr. Simon is right that humans can adapt and prosper on this rapidly changing planet, we have to ask ourselves whether the risks and inequalities of this change are desirable. Ultimately, humanity’s course will be determined less by iron laws of nature or by unbounded market powers, Mr. Ehrlich and Mr. Simon’s dueling lodestars, and more by the social and political choices that we make. Neither biology nor economics can substitute for the deeper ethical question: what kind of world do we want to live in? Paul Sabin is an associate professor of American history at Yale and the author of “The Bet: Paul Ehrlich, Julian Simon, and Our Gamble Over Earth’s Future.”
lonecat over 10 years ago
And by the way, Marxists and Environmentalists generally don’t get along.
disgustedtaxpayer over 10 years ago
Anthony 2816 GoComics PRO Member said, about 16 hours ago @disgustedtaxpayer “I’m a Free Enterprise conservative”Yeah, who also takes full advantage of Medicare. What a hypocrite you are.—(????)……(what is your problem?)Congress made it illegal for a private insurance policy to cover basic Medicare, the only possible private insurance is “supplemental” tied to what Medicare approves, for the % Medicare does not pay.-Congress put retirees who paid SSA and Medicare taxes into a Gulag “situation”….either that or pay all medical expenses with “cash” until your income and savings and property are gone! -Conservatives wanted voluntary healthcare savings accounts; Private, not the federal dole.-Ruff GoComics PRO Member said, 1 day ago @disgustedtaxpayer “to: disgustedtaxpayer’s’Happy Hanukkah…(end quote)-Happy Hanukkah to you also. Jesus (John 10: 22-23) observed Hanukkah (Feast of the Dedication) that celebrated the overthrow of Tyrant Antiochus 4, who had desecrated the Temple and tried to force the Jews to stop observing Moses’ laws for obeying God in worship. The miracle of one day’s Kosher oil burning for 8 days while new Kosher oil was made, is the reason for the 9-branch Menorah (I have one) for Hanukkah. God bless His Chosen People and may all of them come to know Yeshua as their Messiah, who is soon coming to save Israel and begin the Kingdom. Shalom.