Why bow down to the illegals demanding we give them what we want? What is SO hard for Democrats to push LEGAL immigration instead of just granting amnesty to those who just snub the law? Also, why add 30 million undocumented to the rolls on TOP of the already 90+ million unemployed Americans? Just call it what it really is: New Voters for the Dems.
Piano Guy certain has some weird numbers. There are about 243 million work-age people in the United States, and about 11 million illegal aliens. No telling how many of them are of working age. Officially there are about 12 million unemployed in the US today; counting the “not looking” and underemployed it might be closer to 14 million. Interestingly, the unemployment rate for college grads never got above 5% and is now closer to 3.5%. Perhaps that is why the people running the country aren’t too concerned about it: no one in their family is looking for work. The funny thing about this issue (illegal immigration) is that no one, liberal or conservative, wants open borders. Everyone thinks there ought to be a penalty for coming into the country illegally, or staying after one’s visa has expired (few people understand how many illegal immigrants are of that sort). And nobody much wants to absolutely deny these people the opportunity to become American citizens. Conservatives (typically) want them to go back to the country of their origins, apply for permission to come it in the usual manner, and wait their turn. (Setting aside that the vast majority will be dead before they are able to return, assuming they could survive such a return at all.) Liberals want them to pay a penalty for gaining legal status, just a penalty less harsh than deportation. So it all comes down to HOW SEVERELY SHOULD ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BE PUNISHED FOR THEM TO BECOME LEGAL IMMIGRANTS? Now, if someone drives illegally, either without a license or in excess of the speed limit, they are not banned from driving for life, or even for ten years (the length of time a deported person must wait before he can APPLY for a visa to come to America). There are hundreds of crimes that, in the United States, are not punished as severely as are illegals who are deported. And deportation is a curious sort of punishment: the longer you are here, and the more established you become in this life, the harsher the penalty of deportation becomes. And that is the whole issue: how severely should IAs be punished before they can be welcomed. Why is this not open to negotiation and compromise? Too many off-with-their-heads absolutists? What if I were to say “Speeding is illegal. Anyone caught speeding should have their driving license revoked for life. If that seems harsh, they should have thought about that before they broke the law. What part of illegal did they not understand?” Would that not sound ludicrous? Illegal immigration is an invented crime, anyway. Before 1880 or so, there were no illegal immigrants, because we had open borders: if you could get here, you could stay. Our Founding Fathers complained about the King putting up barriers to immigration and naturalization in the Declaration of Independence! An affront to liberty! Those who revere the Founders and claim to be the champions of Liberty, and talk so continuously about their God-given rights, should be the first to champion the cause of the illegal immigrant. If freedom means anything, it includes freedom to travel and live where you want to. If freedom is a God-given right, then it doesn’t belong to Americans alone, but all mankind. If you want to refute the ideas of the Founders, go right ahead. But please don’t turn around and complain that America isn’t staying true to their vision, because you obviously don’t want it to, either.
Nobody proposes giving illegal immigrants a free ride, or just leaving the borders wide open. Let’s suppose your friends did what others have done: came to America anyway under a tourist visa, and they stayed: living on such odd jobs of work as they could find, without the benefits of legal status, prey to exploitation and even extortion, for many years. I’d say they were paying a pretty high price for coming here illegally. Now imagine that it was in your power to send them packing with no hope of returning to what had become their home; or to impose some sort of penalty upon them short of deportation (let’s say a fine, and ten-year additional wait before they could apply for citizenship) to allow them legal status. Would you send your friends packing? Let’s suppose that an illegal resident of the United States could gain legal status, assuming no criminal record or other blot against him, with the payment of a $100,000 fine for coming across the border illegally. If one, five, or ten million illegal immigrants paid the fine, that would be a lot of money to reduce the national debt. Every illegal immigrant would have a path to citizenship if he paid the fine. And those sympathetic to them could contribute money to the cause. What would be wrong with that? Especially when we are talking about children who were brought here without their own choice, and know no other home. And what about those who are willing to enlist in our armed forces? Would it be a slap in the face of your friends if people so determined to be American citizens that they were willing to risk their lives in the defense of t his country, were permitted to do so? And on a side note, Obama is powerless to “legalize” anybody or anything. That must be done by Congress. And to be clear, the ACA was not passed by Obama. It was passed by Congress with his approval. Just as it can be repealed by Congress, even, conceivably, over his veto. But Congress has never attempted to repeal it. Only the House of Representatives has. Only part of Congress. And, as some folks like to say, this is not a democracy, but a constitutional republic, even the majority of the people cannot repeal a law unless they do it by constitutional means.
So, that makes it ok? I have nothing wrong with prosecuting businesses that hire illegals. Also, try going to another country and getting away with what the illegals are getting away with here in America. G’wan, just try.
On one hand, it’s sad to see that you don’t care about the law and how it would ruin this great nation to just allow millions of illegals suddenly be granted citizenship. We already are at suffering numbers with high unemployment. It’ll shatter us adding that much more AND have them start getting welfare.
“I have friends that tried to legally move to America from England. They had sponsors, job skills and money. They were refused and moved to Australia. It is a slap in the face to them if millions of illegals get legalized by Obama.”-For the so-called conservatives, EVERY issue revolves around hatred of Obama. There is NO issue to be debated on its own merits.
No, no, he is correct. But you then have to include the children and the retired elderly also! In fact, with those the figure is probably higher. Why on Earth are we allowing those lazy bum retirees and children to not be a part of the work force, shame, shame!!
Don Winchester Premium Member over 10 years ago
Why bow down to the illegals demanding we give them what we want? What is SO hard for Democrats to push LEGAL immigration instead of just granting amnesty to those who just snub the law? Also, why add 30 million undocumented to the rolls on TOP of the already 90+ million unemployed Americans? Just call it what it really is: New Voters for the Dems.
jazzmoose over 10 years ago
Hey, I think that kid’s on your lawn again!
avarner over 10 years ago
Let’s be fair and have the same policy Mexico does.
Doughfoot over 10 years ago
Piano Guy certain has some weird numbers. There are about 243 million work-age people in the United States, and about 11 million illegal aliens. No telling how many of them are of working age. Officially there are about 12 million unemployed in the US today; counting the “not looking” and underemployed it might be closer to 14 million. Interestingly, the unemployment rate for college grads never got above 5% and is now closer to 3.5%. Perhaps that is why the people running the country aren’t too concerned about it: no one in their family is looking for work. The funny thing about this issue (illegal immigration) is that no one, liberal or conservative, wants open borders. Everyone thinks there ought to be a penalty for coming into the country illegally, or staying after one’s visa has expired (few people understand how many illegal immigrants are of that sort). And nobody much wants to absolutely deny these people the opportunity to become American citizens. Conservatives (typically) want them to go back to the country of their origins, apply for permission to come it in the usual manner, and wait their turn. (Setting aside that the vast majority will be dead before they are able to return, assuming they could survive such a return at all.) Liberals want them to pay a penalty for gaining legal status, just a penalty less harsh than deportation. So it all comes down to HOW SEVERELY SHOULD ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BE PUNISHED FOR THEM TO BECOME LEGAL IMMIGRANTS? Now, if someone drives illegally, either without a license or in excess of the speed limit, they are not banned from driving for life, or even for ten years (the length of time a deported person must wait before he can APPLY for a visa to come to America). There are hundreds of crimes that, in the United States, are not punished as severely as are illegals who are deported. And deportation is a curious sort of punishment: the longer you are here, and the more established you become in this life, the harsher the penalty of deportation becomes. And that is the whole issue: how severely should IAs be punished before they can be welcomed. Why is this not open to negotiation and compromise? Too many off-with-their-heads absolutists? What if I were to say “Speeding is illegal. Anyone caught speeding should have their driving license revoked for life. If that seems harsh, they should have thought about that before they broke the law. What part of illegal did they not understand?” Would that not sound ludicrous? Illegal immigration is an invented crime, anyway. Before 1880 or so, there were no illegal immigrants, because we had open borders: if you could get here, you could stay. Our Founding Fathers complained about the King putting up barriers to immigration and naturalization in the Declaration of Independence! An affront to liberty! Those who revere the Founders and claim to be the champions of Liberty, and talk so continuously about their God-given rights, should be the first to champion the cause of the illegal immigrant. If freedom means anything, it includes freedom to travel and live where you want to. If freedom is a God-given right, then it doesn’t belong to Americans alone, but all mankind. If you want to refute the ideas of the Founders, go right ahead. But please don’t turn around and complain that America isn’t staying true to their vision, because you obviously don’t want it to, either.
Doughfoot over 10 years ago
Nobody proposes giving illegal immigrants a free ride, or just leaving the borders wide open. Let’s suppose your friends did what others have done: came to America anyway under a tourist visa, and they stayed: living on such odd jobs of work as they could find, without the benefits of legal status, prey to exploitation and even extortion, for many years. I’d say they were paying a pretty high price for coming here illegally. Now imagine that it was in your power to send them packing with no hope of returning to what had become their home; or to impose some sort of penalty upon them short of deportation (let’s say a fine, and ten-year additional wait before they could apply for citizenship) to allow them legal status. Would you send your friends packing? Let’s suppose that an illegal resident of the United States could gain legal status, assuming no criminal record or other blot against him, with the payment of a $100,000 fine for coming across the border illegally. If one, five, or ten million illegal immigrants paid the fine, that would be a lot of money to reduce the national debt. Every illegal immigrant would have a path to citizenship if he paid the fine. And those sympathetic to them could contribute money to the cause. What would be wrong with that? Especially when we are talking about children who were brought here without their own choice, and know no other home. And what about those who are willing to enlist in our armed forces? Would it be a slap in the face of your friends if people so determined to be American citizens that they were willing to risk their lives in the defense of t his country, were permitted to do so? And on a side note, Obama is powerless to “legalize” anybody or anything. That must be done by Congress. And to be clear, the ACA was not passed by Obama. It was passed by Congress with his approval. Just as it can be repealed by Congress, even, conceivably, over his veto. But Congress has never attempted to repeal it. Only the House of Representatives has. Only part of Congress. And, as some folks like to say, this is not a democracy, but a constitutional republic, even the majority of the people cannot repeal a law unless they do it by constitutional means.
Godfreydaniel over 10 years ago
Talk about high hurdles…….
Don Winchester Premium Member over 10 years ago
So, that makes it ok? I have nothing wrong with prosecuting businesses that hire illegals. Also, try going to another country and getting away with what the illegals are getting away with here in America. G’wan, just try.
Don Winchester Premium Member over 10 years ago
On one hand, it’s sad to see that you don’t care about the law and how it would ruin this great nation to just allow millions of illegals suddenly be granted citizenship. We already are at suffering numbers with high unemployment. It’ll shatter us adding that much more AND have them start getting welfare.
braindead Premium Member over 10 years ago
“I have friends that tried to legally move to America from England. They had sponsors, job skills and money. They were refused and moved to Australia. It is a slap in the face to them if millions of illegals get legalized by Obama.”-For the so-called conservatives, EVERY issue revolves around hatred of Obama. There is NO issue to be debated on its own merits.
frodo1008 over 10 years ago
No, no, he is correct. But you then have to include the children and the retired elderly also! In fact, with those the figure is probably higher. Why on Earth are we allowing those lazy bum retirees and children to not be a part of the work force, shame, shame!!