If (when) found guilty, will this provide Zimmerman with an automatic grounds for appeal?“Your Honor, my attorney was an idiot. He opened my defense with a freaking knock-knock joke!”
Actually, if his lawyer keeps pulling idiotic stunts like that, he could call for a mistrial. And yes, if things get bad enough, he has a case for an appeal.
They have the trial on the big screen TV at the clubhouse so I heard two minutes of it. They claim it is day 4, but don’t count 8 days of jury selection. I think it will last a looonnnggg time.
What I was getting at is this – a mistrial works in the defense’s favor because, if it happens after the prosecution has already presented the case, a new defense attorney has seen their opening hand, and can build a new defense strategy around that. All they need is reasonable doubt, and he’s off the hook, like Casey Anthony.
Pity I wasn’t permitted to see the cartoon, only the discussion. But then I come from a long line of ethnically oppressed: Anglo-Saxons by Normans, Celts by English, Cherokee by “Americans”.
I’m not making up my mind until I hear both sides — and even then I’m not sure we will really know what happened. I don’t think I’d like Zimmerman much, but that doesn’t mean he’s guilty. I can easily see a jury deciding that they can’t convict beyond a reasonable doubt.
I agree that there are facts not in dispute. I am not convinced as yet that the facts not in dispute lead to a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. The whole point of having a trial is to find out. Look, I don’t like the guy, I think he shouldn’t have been strutting around pretending to be a cop, I think he shouldn’t have been carrying a gun, I think he shouldn’t have followed Martin, but I also can imagine a situation in which Martin attacked him and pounded his head against the sidewalk. I’m not saying that I think that happened, because I don’t know what happened. At a minimum we should wait for the evidence to come out in court. Maybe that evidence will be enough to decide the issue, maybe it will leave the situation in reasonable doubt. I don’t know. There’s an important principle here, or maybe more than one. (1) People are innocent until they are proved guilty, even if you don’t like them. (2) We don’t have all the information, and therefore we shouldn’t be too quick to form a judgment. (3) We aren’t in the courtroom, and we aren’t seeing and hearing everything the jury is seeing and hearing. These are principles I want the right to apply when someone I like is on trial, and therefore I feel that I should apply these principles when someone I don’t like is on trial.
My thoughts about Zimmerman were as yours (a way of thought I seldom allow myself) right after Trayvon was killed. A couple of months later they released pictures of the back of Zimmerman’s head where it had been smashed into the concrete multiple times requiring multiple stitches. I had had no evidence except the sensationalism presented by the press in my presumption of his guilt on a murder charge. The pictures made me wish I had kept an open mind. Now I have no idea whether he is guilty of murder or not."trayvon was not out looking to mug Zimmerman and the concept is specious.if Zimmerman had not NOT gone after martin, they would both be alive today and there would be no trial.
Yes, Zimmerman deserves a fair trial. Martin deserves it as well. From the moment of the first call Zimmerman made to the police, premeditation was established when he refused to obey the order to stand down. The PA who treated him also confirmed his “injuries” were minor (yes scalp wounds, even minor ones, bleed a lot, impressive if you don’t know it, but not indicative of severe trauma.)
Zimmerman does deserve a fair trial, and a fairly long sentence in prison. (Isn’t it also amazing how the “skinhead” appearance on the night of his attack on Martin, is now a clean cut guy with good hair?)
When the first pictures of zimmerman were released Al sharpton was the first on the bandwagon to say that he had no injuries. Later, when other pictures showed the injuries that Zimmerman had described, Sharpton was silent. Why?
McSpook almost 11 years ago
If (when) found guilty, will this provide Zimmerman with an automatic grounds for appeal?“Your Honor, my attorney was an idiot. He opened my defense with a freaking knock-knock joke!”
Fourcrows almost 11 years ago
Actually, if his lawyer keeps pulling idiotic stunts like that, he could call for a mistrial. And yes, if things get bad enough, he has a case for an appeal.
mbraun almost 11 years ago
The joke was: “Knock-knock”,“Who’s there?”,“George ZImmerman”,“George Zimmerman who?”,“You’re on the jury!”
rockngolfer almost 11 years ago
They have the trial on the big screen TV at the clubhouse so I heard two minutes of it. They claim it is day 4, but don’t count 8 days of jury selection. I think it will last a looonnnggg time.
Fourcrows almost 11 years ago
What I was getting at is this – a mistrial works in the defense’s favor because, if it happens after the prosecution has already presented the case, a new defense attorney has seen their opening hand, and can build a new defense strategy around that. All they need is reasonable doubt, and he’s off the hook, like Casey Anthony.
hippogriff almost 11 years ago
Pity I wasn’t permitted to see the cartoon, only the discussion. But then I come from a long line of ethnically oppressed: Anglo-Saxons by Normans, Celts by English, Cherokee by “Americans”.
lonecat almost 11 years ago
I’m not making up my mind until I hear both sides — and even then I’m not sure we will really know what happened. I don’t think I’d like Zimmerman much, but that doesn’t mean he’s guilty. I can easily see a jury deciding that they can’t convict beyond a reasonable doubt.
lonecat almost 11 years ago
I agree that there are facts not in dispute. I am not convinced as yet that the facts not in dispute lead to a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. The whole point of having a trial is to find out. Look, I don’t like the guy, I think he shouldn’t have been strutting around pretending to be a cop, I think he shouldn’t have been carrying a gun, I think he shouldn’t have followed Martin, but I also can imagine a situation in which Martin attacked him and pounded his head against the sidewalk. I’m not saying that I think that happened, because I don’t know what happened. At a minimum we should wait for the evidence to come out in court. Maybe that evidence will be enough to decide the issue, maybe it will leave the situation in reasonable doubt. I don’t know. There’s an important principle here, or maybe more than one. (1) People are innocent until they are proved guilty, even if you don’t like them. (2) We don’t have all the information, and therefore we shouldn’t be too quick to form a judgment. (3) We aren’t in the courtroom, and we aren’t seeing and hearing everything the jury is seeing and hearing. These are principles I want the right to apply when someone I like is on trial, and therefore I feel that I should apply these principles when someone I don’t like is on trial.
dannysixpack almost 11 years ago
mikefive said, about 22 hours ago
“@The Wolf In Your Midst
My thoughts about Zimmerman were as yours (a way of thought I seldom allow myself) right after Trayvon was killed. A couple of months later they released pictures of the back of Zimmerman’s head where it had been smashed into the concrete multiple times requiring multiple stitches. I had had no evidence except the sensationalism presented by the press in my presumption of his guilt on a murder charge. The pictures made me wish I had kept an open mind. Now I have no idea whether he is guilty of murder or not."trayvon was not out looking to mug Zimmerman and the concept is specious.if Zimmerman had not NOT gone after martin, they would both be alive today and there would be no trial.
Dtroutma almost 11 years ago
Yes, Zimmerman deserves a fair trial. Martin deserves it as well. From the moment of the first call Zimmerman made to the police, premeditation was established when he refused to obey the order to stand down. The PA who treated him also confirmed his “injuries” were minor (yes scalp wounds, even minor ones, bleed a lot, impressive if you don’t know it, but not indicative of severe trauma.)
Zimmerman does deserve a fair trial, and a fairly long sentence in prison. (Isn’t it also amazing how the “skinhead” appearance on the night of his attack on Martin, is now a clean cut guy with good hair?)
Brutatowski almost 11 years ago
When the first pictures of zimmerman were released Al sharpton was the first on the bandwagon to say that he had no injuries. Later, when other pictures showed the injuries that Zimmerman had described, Sharpton was silent. Why?