http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/14/us/politics/gop-senators-add-gun-protections-to-financing-bill.html^The link is about a rider slipped into the last spending bill without discussion. That safe is tougher than it looks.^In addition to the rider protecting gun rights, the ATF has very little enforcement power, gun makers are protected from being sued when their products fail or are used improperly. And while many of us are seeing our constitutional right to have access to voting restricted, the constitutional right to own guns that can fire 150 rounds in 5 minutes is being treated as the more important of the two rights.^I like guns. I like cars. I have to register my car and report when its sold or stolen. Why is it wrong to do that with a tool like a gun? ^Then there’s Mr. Dwyer from MD. He wants to create a militia to defend threats he sees to Constitutional rights.^http://delegatedwyer.com/constitutionaldefenseforce^I support a Civil Defense Corp like that from the 50’s that works with law enforcement, but Mr. Dwyer seems to be concerned that law enforcement is part of the problem. There’s someone in Texas who feels the same way and he’s killing law enforcement officials. This is not the way a civilized country resolves issues.Respectfully,C.
I’m not a member of the NRA and even I know that that is a lie!
“NRA certificates can be acquired by passing certain pistol safety and training courses around the country. These certificates do not necessarily represent an NRA membership, but rather signify that the NRA has endorsed the safety or training course.”
@ wmconnally – you state your position well and with a “first person” narrative voice. I appreciate and support your call to action, and the service a young captain gave to his nation. Do not let uncivil voices deter you from speaking. For every person who posts on GC, there are many more who do not. It is to them your messages should be aimed. People who do not like a message attack the messenger. As long as you can maintain your balance, you words will plant seeds that may open hearts and minds. @ Adrian Snare – Mussolini once said that Fascism would be better described as Corporatism. Eisenhower warned us of corporate power as well. Corporations control the news media and the quality of the information being given to our neighbors. I have a suggestion tho…^Too many know the consequences of Hitler but do not know how he came to power and the conditions under which it happened. Invoking his name usually results in someone feeling as if they are being accused of being a Nazi. Since joining GC, I have seen the policies of Mr. Bush and Mr. Obama described in the terms of Hitler. Both men have been caricatured with that tiny mustache. I think Mr. Schiklgruber would be pleased he’s still part of the discussion. I suggest resisting using Hitler in commentary. It rarely raises the tone of the debate.@ Incredulous – I flagged your reply to wmconnelly. You either read it wrong or you chose to insult a man who served his country in combat and for no other reason than you don’t like his opinion. In light of Mr. Connally’s words, I found yours cruel. Based on some of your other comments, I think you will like Mr. Dwyer’s uncompromising and authoritarian positions. ^And as far as your comment to me goes. I did rethink my positions on many things. I rethink them whenever a lucid, civil voice says something I had not considered. And in rethinking them, chose a path of educated respect. I wonder how much history you have read. It is amazing how one can expand their paradigm when they study the actions of those who preceded us. Incredulously,but respectfully,C.
Wow, the UN? Lisa Benson has really gone off into cuckoo land. Does she believe that right-wing conspiracy crap? It doesn’t help discourse to promote laughably false conspiracies. Oh, and none of the proposed laws violate the second amendment. Lisa doesn’t get to decide these things. The Supreme Court does. And none of the laws come close to violating the constitution, according to the supremes.
Your willful ignorance is stunning.CDC -Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Last I checked injury or death by gun is not a disease, it’s a violent crime. What business does the CDC have gathering statistics on something not within their area of interest?What’s even more stunning about your little one sided meme is your lie by omission. You put forth an argument that because the CDC does not collect the statistics any more it’s been “devastating for the field of gun violence prevention.” Yet in the sentence just prior to that cut and paste line you quote a STATISTIC! Wonder where that came from?Maybe, just maybe, it came from law enforcement agencies throughout the nation that, oh by the way, collect information related to gun violence. You know that little inconvenient thing about you get injured or killed by a gun, you have to notify law enforcement, medical care givers are required by law to notify law enforcement.
www.townhall.com….4/3/13 article by News Editor Katie Pavlich…"Obama uses False “automatic weapons” line to Push Gun Control"-“(Obama) referred to the weapon used by Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza as a fully-automatic weapon when in fact, it was semi-automatic.”-And the 2nd Amendment says “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”-what part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do you anti-guns posters not understand??
“As a very young U.S. Army Captain, I led a few hundred men in combat for a year. I was always there with them before, during, and after.
I not only know what it looks like, with mental images any combat veteran will confirm linger for a lifetime, I also know what I thought as I walked among bodies. They looked human but the spark we call life was gone. I couldn’t bring it back. I was totally helpless to snatch back that life gone away."
.Very sensitive, emotional appeal. Quite appropriate the way you transition these emotional declarations into a call for action on the part of our legislators. Obviously the remarks on your comment are a testimony to your writing ability.
I guess because I have seen too much violence and death in my youth it brings out a different reaction in me. You sound so aloof and detached, reflective even, as you “walked amongst their bodies.” I presume as a combat leader you killed as many of them as you could in the pursuit of your duties? How easily you seem to detach from that responsibility when you speak in such an esoteric manner.
“Are Federal legislators going to cower before fear mongering or pass laws needed to protect the public?”
My question would more succinctly be, when are we going to address the real issues causing this culture of violence and abandon the notion that ineffective legislation is going to solve our problems. Prohibition doesn’t work, it generally just exacerbates the problem.
a person i know has solved the “well regulated” problem many of you see. he has incorp a not for profit miltia and is awaiting his sales tax exemption before going and try to buy munitions.
Let’s cite some examples. There are now universities which allow weapons on campus. Of course, this would stop anything like what happened at Virginia Tech. To be sure, if a shooter is on campus, we can be sure that the campus police or local police will be way too late to do anything, but there will be a herd of 18-year-olds running toward the scene with guns drawn and no training. Anyone see a problem here?
How about the guy in New Orleans who was shooting at a pair of carjackers who were running from his gun? An off-duty police officer did not identify himself, nor did he ask questions before he blew that guy away for shooting at fleeing civilians.
And here’s a fun story: I know a man whose son divorced his wife; the usual story, the ex-wife had an unemployed boyfriend who lived in what used to be the son’s house. Since the son worked on the railroad and was out of town a lot, he shared custody of the kids. He built his own house on his dad’s land because he was afraid his ex-wife would try to lay claim on it if it were in his name.
When he returned from a work-related trip, his ex-wife and children were nowhere to be found. He went to his ex-wife’s, and called out the boyfriend, who came out the front door with a shotgun. First he shot the guy’s Harley. When he turned to see the damage, the boyfriend shot him in the back of the head. He was unarmed.
At trial, all of these facts were revealed. Perhaps because this was Arkansas, the boyfriend was set free, because he “feared for his safety”. Shooting an unarmed man in the back evidently did not play a part in it.
The ex-wife would not release the body to his family unless the dead man’s new house was signed over to her. Since the family understandably was not willing to be bribed, the body was scheduled to be buried in an unmarked grave in a cemetery built for indigents. Fortunately, the family found a way to claim the body from that cemetery. And the ex-wife and the boyfriend are now living on his railroad pension, since the divorce was not yet final.
Now, what’s wrong with that picture? Should the shooter have been on a lunatic registry? Should laws regarding “stand your ground” be re-examined? Is a person who is willing to shoot an unarmed man in the back a responsible gun owner, part of a well-regulated militia?
Reducing gun violence is not a black-and-white issue. Almost nothing is. Can we stop pretending that it is so very simple?
I too have had friends and family injured and killed by gun violence, but I also realize the gun does not kill by itself, the gun is not a living entity, it needs to be manipulated by a Human Being in order to be an instrument of death and mayhem.Your meme and ending line, here let me quote it for you, help you remember it, " The 1996 Republican ban of the CDCresearch was devastating for the field of gun violence prevention.“First, legislation is passed by Congress, it may be a democrat or republican that proposes the bill, attaches additional riders, etc. but legislation is passed by Congress. So the correct verbiage would be that Congress, with support from republicans, passed a law which contained a provision that restricted the CDC from collecting gun related data.Next, you provide no linkage to any research that shows how this single piece of legislation has ”devastated" the field of gun violence prevention. Has it reduced the collection of statistics? Has it prevented any organization from putting together materials or presentations advocating against guns, gun control, reducing gun ownership, banning gun ownership or any other form of advocating against guns? Doesn’t look like it from what I can read, see and hear in the news and other sources of information, it would appear your meme fails there.And as I stated above, and you all but acknowledged with the one link that worked, statistics about gun violence can and still is being collected despite the CDC not being able to collect it.I noticed you failed to address that though.If you are going to link to an article or study to support your argument, please do so in a way that others can use them. The first link was to a pay for view site, fail, the second link resolved to a 404 error. All of the links contained bad characters that needed to be corrected in order to get the correct address.
And where’s the “reply” cartoon — the one that shows a safe labeled “Citizens’ Right to Live” with dynamite attached to it credited to the NRA, the Tea Party and the politicians who are in the NRA’s pocket?
from www.cnsnews.com article 3/28/13=(about the UN draft treaty on global arms trade)“The draft treaty would not control the domestic use of weapons in any country, but it would require all countries to establish national regulations to control the transfer of conventional arms, parts and components and to regulate arms brokers. It would prohibit states that ratify the treaty from transferring conventional weapons if they violate arms embargoes or if they promote acts of genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes.”-the NRA legal opinion is that a UN treaty signed by the USA would require domestic gun control.
Those that profit on guns have lots of money to feed the commercial media and to help pay cartoonists like this one to do work like this, and to make sure their cartons are widely published where the innocent will see and believe them..This is not a ‘liberal’ issue. Far from it. .Liberalism involves maximal freedom of personal action, as the Libertarians also agree. .Pure Liberalism would involve the freedom to buy guns, fireworks, all explosives, drugs, poisons, to distribute child-porn, race-hatred, etc. .The world needs balance. There is such a thing as the public good.
please explain how “non-lethal” defense works against a well-armed intruder in your home, day or night, with the family at home and weapon-less…..??-and how a school full of students and teachers weapon-less when one or more shooters, well-armed, come in and begin shooting at whoever is in sight?
Dtroutma about 11 years ago
TEA party, JBS, and NRA, the three real culprits.
Stormrider2112 about 11 years ago
Yeah, because it’s not like Conservatives support things that abridge the First Amendment or anything.
chazandru about 11 years ago
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/14/us/politics/gop-senators-add-gun-protections-to-financing-bill.html^The link is about a rider slipped into the last spending bill without discussion. That safe is tougher than it looks.^In addition to the rider protecting gun rights, the ATF has very little enforcement power, gun makers are protected from being sued when their products fail or are used improperly. And while many of us are seeing our constitutional right to have access to voting restricted, the constitutional right to own guns that can fire 150 rounds in 5 minutes is being treated as the more important of the two rights.^I like guns. I like cars. I have to register my car and report when its sold or stolen. Why is it wrong to do that with a tool like a gun? ^Then there’s Mr. Dwyer from MD. He wants to create a militia to defend threats he sees to Constitutional rights.^http://delegatedwyer.com/constitutionaldefenseforce^I support a Civil Defense Corp like that from the 50’s that works with law enforcement, but Mr. Dwyer seems to be concerned that law enforcement is part of the problem. There’s someone in Texas who feels the same way and he’s killing law enforcement officials. This is not the way a civilized country resolves issues.Respectfully,C.
Incredulous about 11 years ago
I’m not a member of the NRA and even I know that that is a lie!
“NRA certificates can be acquired by passing certain pistol safety and training courses around the country. These certificates do not necessarily represent an NRA membership, but rather signify that the NRA has endorsed the safety or training course.”
Chillbilly about 11 years ago
I don’t think people will notice gun violence until it happens to their loved ones.
Durak Premium Member about 11 years ago
Give me a break. There are limits on all our rights. We have to be responsible in the exercise of our rights. It’s called citizenship.
nanellen about 11 years ago
@Dypak, Limits- perhaps- but taken away- NO!
chazandru about 11 years ago
@ wmconnally – you state your position well and with a “first person” narrative voice. I appreciate and support your call to action, and the service a young captain gave to his nation. Do not let uncivil voices deter you from speaking. For every person who posts on GC, there are many more who do not. It is to them your messages should be aimed. People who do not like a message attack the messenger. As long as you can maintain your balance, you words will plant seeds that may open hearts and minds. @ Adrian Snare – Mussolini once said that Fascism would be better described as Corporatism. Eisenhower warned us of corporate power as well. Corporations control the news media and the quality of the information being given to our neighbors. I have a suggestion tho…^Too many know the consequences of Hitler but do not know how he came to power and the conditions under which it happened. Invoking his name usually results in someone feeling as if they are being accused of being a Nazi. Since joining GC, I have seen the policies of Mr. Bush and Mr. Obama described in the terms of Hitler. Both men have been caricatured with that tiny mustache. I think Mr. Schiklgruber would be pleased he’s still part of the discussion. I suggest resisting using Hitler in commentary. It rarely raises the tone of the debate.@ Incredulous – I flagged your reply to wmconnelly. You either read it wrong or you chose to insult a man who served his country in combat and for no other reason than you don’t like his opinion. In light of Mr. Connally’s words, I found yours cruel. Based on some of your other comments, I think you will like Mr. Dwyer’s uncompromising and authoritarian positions. ^And as far as your comment to me goes. I did rethink my positions on many things. I rethink them whenever a lucid, civil voice says something I had not considered. And in rethinking them, chose a path of educated respect. I wonder how much history you have read. It is amazing how one can expand their paradigm when they study the actions of those who preceded us. Incredulously,but respectfully,C.
Mickey 13 about 11 years ago
“Adam Lanza was an NRA member”
I guess you got that from your objective reporter Piers Morgan. Try again.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/28/miller-hey-piers-morgan-adam-lanza-was-not-nra-mem/
ARodney about 11 years ago
Wow, the UN? Lisa Benson has really gone off into cuckoo land. Does she believe that right-wing conspiracy crap? It doesn’t help discourse to promote laughably false conspiracies. Oh, and none of the proposed laws violate the second amendment. Lisa doesn’t get to decide these things. The Supreme Court does. And none of the laws come close to violating the constitution, according to the supremes.
dpbriley about 11 years ago
Your willful ignorance is stunning.CDC -Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Last I checked injury or death by gun is not a disease, it’s a violent crime. What business does the CDC have gathering statistics on something not within their area of interest?What’s even more stunning about your little one sided meme is your lie by omission. You put forth an argument that because the CDC does not collect the statistics any more it’s been “devastating for the field of gun violence prevention.” Yet in the sentence just prior to that cut and paste line you quote a STATISTIC! Wonder where that came from?Maybe, just maybe, it came from law enforcement agencies throughout the nation that, oh by the way, collect information related to gun violence. You know that little inconvenient thing about you get injured or killed by a gun, you have to notify law enforcement, medical care givers are required by law to notify law enforcement.
disgustedtaxpayer about 11 years ago
www.townhall.com….4/3/13 article by News Editor Katie Pavlich…"Obama uses False “automatic weapons” line to Push Gun Control"-“(Obama) referred to the weapon used by Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza as a fully-automatic weapon when in fact, it was semi-automatic.”-And the 2nd Amendment says “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”-what part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do you anti-guns posters not understand??
Mickey 13 about 11 years ago
“As a very young U.S. Army Captain, I led a few hundred men in combat for a year. I was always there with them before, during, and after.
I not only know what it looks like, with mental images any combat veteran will confirm linger for a lifetime, I also know what I thought as I walked among bodies. They looked human but the spark we call life was gone. I couldn’t bring it back. I was totally helpless to snatch back that life gone away."
.Very sensitive, emotional appeal. Quite appropriate the way you transition these emotional declarations into a call for action on the part of our legislators. Obviously the remarks on your comment are a testimony to your writing ability.
I guess because I have seen too much violence and death in my youth it brings out a different reaction in me. You sound so aloof and detached, reflective even, as you “walked amongst their bodies.” I presume as a combat leader you killed as many of them as you could in the pursuit of your duties? How easily you seem to detach from that responsibility when you speak in such an esoteric manner.
“Are Federal legislators going to cower before fear mongering or pass laws needed to protect the public?”
My question would more succinctly be, when are we going to address the real issues causing this culture of violence and abandon the notion that ineffective legislation is going to solve our problems. Prohibition doesn’t work, it generally just exacerbates the problem.
oneoldhat about 11 years ago
a person i know has solved the “well regulated” problem many of you see. he has incorp a not for profit miltia and is awaiting his sales tax exemption before going and try to buy munitions.
john lott has an interesting book on this subject
Tempus Fugit Premium Member about 11 years ago
Oh Please!!!!
I Play One On TV about 11 years ago
Let’s cite some examples. There are now universities which allow weapons on campus. Of course, this would stop anything like what happened at Virginia Tech. To be sure, if a shooter is on campus, we can be sure that the campus police or local police will be way too late to do anything, but there will be a herd of 18-year-olds running toward the scene with guns drawn and no training. Anyone see a problem here?
How about the guy in New Orleans who was shooting at a pair of carjackers who were running from his gun? An off-duty police officer did not identify himself, nor did he ask questions before he blew that guy away for shooting at fleeing civilians.
And here’s a fun story: I know a man whose son divorced his wife; the usual story, the ex-wife had an unemployed boyfriend who lived in what used to be the son’s house. Since the son worked on the railroad and was out of town a lot, he shared custody of the kids. He built his own house on his dad’s land because he was afraid his ex-wife would try to lay claim on it if it were in his name.
When he returned from a work-related trip, his ex-wife and children were nowhere to be found. He went to his ex-wife’s, and called out the boyfriend, who came out the front door with a shotgun. First he shot the guy’s Harley. When he turned to see the damage, the boyfriend shot him in the back of the head. He was unarmed.
At trial, all of these facts were revealed. Perhaps because this was Arkansas, the boyfriend was set free, because he “feared for his safety”. Shooting an unarmed man in the back evidently did not play a part in it.
The ex-wife would not release the body to his family unless the dead man’s new house was signed over to her. Since the family understandably was not willing to be bribed, the body was scheduled to be buried in an unmarked grave in a cemetery built for indigents. Fortunately, the family found a way to claim the body from that cemetery. And the ex-wife and the boyfriend are now living on his railroad pension, since the divorce was not yet final.
Now, what’s wrong with that picture? Should the shooter have been on a lunatic registry? Should laws regarding “stand your ground” be re-examined? Is a person who is willing to shoot an unarmed man in the back a responsible gun owner, part of a well-regulated militia?
Reducing gun violence is not a black-and-white issue. Almost nothing is. Can we stop pretending that it is so very simple?
dpbriley about 11 years ago
I too have had friends and family injured and killed by gun violence, but I also realize the gun does not kill by itself, the gun is not a living entity, it needs to be manipulated by a Human Being in order to be an instrument of death and mayhem.Your meme and ending line, here let me quote it for you, help you remember it, " The 1996 Republican ban of the CDCresearch was devastating for the field of gun violence prevention.“First, legislation is passed by Congress, it may be a democrat or republican that proposes the bill, attaches additional riders, etc. but legislation is passed by Congress. So the correct verbiage would be that Congress, with support from republicans, passed a law which contained a provision that restricted the CDC from collecting gun related data.Next, you provide no linkage to any research that shows how this single piece of legislation has ”devastated" the field of gun violence prevention. Has it reduced the collection of statistics? Has it prevented any organization from putting together materials or presentations advocating against guns, gun control, reducing gun ownership, banning gun ownership or any other form of advocating against guns? Doesn’t look like it from what I can read, see and hear in the news and other sources of information, it would appear your meme fails there.And as I stated above, and you all but acknowledged with the one link that worked, statistics about gun violence can and still is being collected despite the CDC not being able to collect it.I noticed you failed to address that though.If you are going to link to an article or study to support your argument, please do so in a way that others can use them. The first link was to a pay for view site, fail, the second link resolved to a 404 error. All of the links contained bad characters that needed to be corrected in order to get the correct address.
Mickey 13 about 11 years ago
“You really are barbarians, you know that?”
Sign of the times Morty. If you want a safe with a dial you have to special order it. I guess dials take to long.
Not the Smartest Man On the Planet -- Maybe Close Premium Member about 11 years ago
And where’s the “reply” cartoon — the one that shows a safe labeled “Citizens’ Right to Live” with dynamite attached to it credited to the NRA, the Tea Party and the politicians who are in the NRA’s pocket?
disgustedtaxpayer about 11 years ago
from www.cnsnews.com article 3/28/13=(about the UN draft treaty on global arms trade)“The draft treaty would not control the domestic use of weapons in any country, but it would require all countries to establish national regulations to control the transfer of conventional arms, parts and components and to regulate arms brokers. It would prohibit states that ratify the treaty from transferring conventional weapons if they violate arms embargoes or if they promote acts of genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes.”-the NRA legal opinion is that a UN treaty signed by the USA would require domestic gun control.
doverdan about 11 years ago
Those that profit on guns have lots of money to feed the commercial media and to help pay cartoonists like this one to do work like this, and to make sure their cartons are widely published where the innocent will see and believe them..This is not a ‘liberal’ issue. Far from it. .Liberalism involves maximal freedom of personal action, as the Libertarians also agree. .Pure Liberalism would involve the freedom to buy guns, fireworks, all explosives, drugs, poisons, to distribute child-porn, race-hatred, etc. .The world needs balance. There is such a thing as the public good.
disgustedtaxpayer about 11 years ago
please explain how “non-lethal” defense works against a well-armed intruder in your home, day or night, with the family at home and weapon-less…..??-and how a school full of students and teachers weapon-less when one or more shooters, well-armed, come in and begin shooting at whoever is in sight?
proverbs14.29 almost 11 years ago
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.-Benjamin Franklin
Keep your hands off the 2nd ammendment.