Gary Varvel for March 27, 2013

Vouchers don’t equate to education.

Once all of the top students have left the public schools (remember, expensive problem students and special-needs kids are screened out of private schools), the conservatives will have succeeded once again in school segregation. But by income level and disability this time. Not to mention, the record of privatized schools has been dismal — companies tend to abandon them, midyear if necessary, if they prove unprofitable, leaving all of the kids scrambling to get back into the reliable public schools.

Vouchers take money away from schools who are already deprived of necessary funding. If politicians gave a flying f—- about education like they claim to, they’d stop cutting education budgets so much. Of course education gets more and more expensive. Not only are there more and more students to educate, inflation makes all the necessary materials more and more expensive. Deal with it.

Private schools are not bound to any type of oversight from the state. This means that if you think “No Child Left Behind” hurt our education, wait until these schools are able to push through kids just for the sake of showing a high graduation rate to keep the money coming. I know of two Catholic schools who “recruit” football players to ensure they always make it to the state finals. These kids are not expected to perform academically at all, yet still manage to get college scholarships.An unexpected side effect would be if public school funding was not cut, then public schools would have an increased amount of money per student, lower classroom size, and still have standards which may actually improve public school education. Unfortunately, the program, as it is now, would draw even more money away from public schools. As the schools get worse, look for more welfare applicants, more teen pregnancies, and higher crime rates. People complain about their tax money going to support other people, but leaving them out to dry is where our crime comes from.

Here’s a test for all you conservatives out there. Let’s suppose that by some impossible twist of fate, predominantly minority schools suddenly got the resources to be excellent.

Would you still send your kids there instead of demand vouchers?

I didn’t think so. This is still about race and Lyndon Johnson’s been dead for decades.

If government and unions are destroying our schools, look at Finland. Strict government oversight, teachers paid like white collar professionals, small classroom size, and an emphasis on student performance. They have a 98% graduation rate, the highest college graduation rate, and one of Europe’s fastest growing economies. Give the Unions what they are looking for, and the economy improves by allowing schools to create more successful students. Cut school funding, and watch our welfare/minimum wage class skyrocket. Treat teachers like professionals and not “necessary evils” and watch America get back on track.

Clark Kent said, about 3 hours ago“The willful destruction of US public schools by big business”-Always Wrong Kent…big business? post your evidence.-No, the willful destruction of the public education system has been accomplished by Liberalism’s teachers’ unions, by a Liberal-Left Democratic party blocking all alternative proposals such as Vouchers which I supported as a taxpayer since I first heard of them….my reasoning is this: we pay taxes for public schools whether we have students in them or not….our taxpaying lifetime. We should be able to use our fair share of that tax fund via vouchers to choose (PRO-CHOICE) where we want our children and grandchildren educated….which if you have any brainpower at all, you know the deplorable record of “grads” such as New York where K-12 turns out majority citizens who can’t read, write or do math.

The Soviet Union fell in 1990. Certaim members of the former government suddenly became fabulously, gloriously, incredibly wealthy overnight. How? By diverting the wealth of the Soviet Union into private, meaning their own, hands. A Billionaire class grew overnight in Russia, a place where once there were not even millionaires.

Shift now to the United States. Greedy members of our society witness how certain Russians became rich over night. What a great idea, how can we do that? Privatization, vouchers, close the post office! Steal and sell off all the government weatlh you have legislative control over.

School vouchers is a stupid, stupid idea. Our schools are our common property. They aren’t bad schools, but they’ve been set up to fail by bungling, idiotic legislatures who have no idea what they are doing? Why? Because they want schools to fail. Why? So they, and their donors can divert the wealth of out nation into their pockets. Don’t let them do it!

Obviously you don’t work in education. Private schools, whether religiously affiliated or not, do not require their teachers to hold state teaching certificates. My first job out of college was teaching music and history in a Catholic middle school. My certification was for the state of Indiana, not Ohio, but I was given the job because I was available at the price they wanted to pay. My wife went through the Catholic school system in Virginia, where the teachers were either nuns or the parents of children at the school, who attended free of charge. If the vouchers are good at Catholic or other religious private schools, then the state is not interfering with school curriculum. Religious schools are not required to teach evolution or other science, history, or social classes that conflict with the core beliefs of the church. If the state does impose any oversight, then any school accepting vouchers must meet the same standards as public schools, which will put the religious schools at odds with the curriculums they will be forced to teach.In a perfect world, voucher schools would attract better teachers or require higher standards of their employees, possibly paying them considerably more money. But in reality, the schools will become diploma mills like our university system or those “University of Phoenix” types, only in it for profit because they not only get tuition but free money from the state in the form of vouchers. Why not just bring our public school up to the standards we want instead of spending MORE tax money on these vouchers?

Sorry. I disagree. The school’s have been destroying themselves, with the help from various outside forces, including parents and the media. There’s more than enough blame to go around.

May I ask where you are getting the data on the track record of charter schools please? Thanks.

Vouchers destroy the public school system and it’s all republican destruction. They say quite clearly that we are abandoning the generations of children in failing schools. This is unfortunate because while it makes for more slave labor to compete against the chinese for big business, it destroys US abilities as an innovator and a brain trust.it’s no mistake (but considering the artist) that you see only white kids getting off the bad bus and getting on the good bus with the white driver.and all you get is RWNJ’s blaming liberals for trying to pay teachers a living wage and having decent conditions in public schools.

gop can not destroy public ed the democrats and teacher union beat them to it USA is number one in dollars per kid http://rossieronline.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/

Imagine your employer constantly told you to accept pay cuts, work more hours, take on unpaid projects, and work under continually worsening conditions. Would you stay or look for a new job? Teachers stay because the best believe they are doing good – they studied and passed a program they loved to do a job they love. Unfortunately, corruption at the state and adminstrator level has caused many of the best to finally walk away. The myth of the overpaid teacher is a fabrication based on only a couple of unusual examples. Administrators have been brought in with the purpose of running schools as businesses, and the students suffer because of it.Go to your local school board and ask for a list of teacher salaries. They are public employees, and their compensation is available for public review. Are any salaries, with regards to seniority, unreasonable? Probably not. Average starting salaries are below $30k, capping out at less than $60k. Not unreasonable at all, and in fact not enough for a starting teacher to support a family on a single income. I support reform, not more of the same. I would rather see teachers have stricter requirements to begin teaching, along with peer reviews every 5 years. Salaries should be raised, administrative costs gleaned for corruption, and the focus put on students. Private schools have a place, but vouchers will remove the opportunity for quality education for all children, first by draining money from the public system, and then by allowing private schools to compete for state money and becoming diploma mills. The voucher system is just a way for politicians to divert more money from their constituency and into the pockets of their donors.

^ The $60k number is for teachers with more than 25 years experience. The average starting salary here in Maine is still $22k. Less than the opening manager of a McDonald’s.

“Typical socialist solution is to throw more money at failure. And when it fails again, throw more money at the problem. Meanwhile, the problem gets worse.”Typical pseudo-conservative response is to argue a point that wasn’t made. My post dealt solely with school vouchers taking money away from schools, politicians who falsely claim to care about education, and a growing student population and monetary inflation as two legitimate reasons education costs continue to rise.No where in my post did I make any comments on how to fix failing schools.

Myth #1 – teachers work less than regular people. Teachers are generally at school from 7am to 5pm or later. Once home, they grade papers and prepare lesson plans. Weekends are also spent grading and catching up on grading. Myth #2 – Teachers pay increases greatly.Teachers salaries start below that of a fast food employee, and increases by about 3% annually, when the budget is approved. Sometimes it can be as many as 5 years for a raise to be approved.Myth # 3 – the Cadillac health plan. They have the same plan and benefits as most US employees, nothing more. In fact, during the last 20 years, unions have been forced to give ground on negotiations, so many teachers receive below national average benefit plans. Myth #4 – teachers have long vacations. The Christmas vacation is spent grading midterms. Yes, they get summer off, but they are not payed over the summer, so many take temporary jobs or teach summer classes. Myth #5 – the retirement pension.One of the few things they can still get that was standard for American workers, but it is not so fat now. Why do you think nobody wants to retire?I don’t know where you get your facts, but they don’t come from anyone in the teaching profession. I have no problem with private schools, but I know from experience that they are not required to offer the same rounded curriculum as public schools. If vouchers become the norm, the program WILL be abused, just like everything else in this country. It could take years for the parents to catch on to the scam, meaning it will be too late for many students. And if some voucher schools are superior, what of the families who can’t afford it? We’re back to the original problem of inner city kids not being able to get the same opportunities as suburban kids.

Really? Should we take you at your word or will you offer a few details?

A major group of “movers” behind the voucher system want the system to pay for sending their little puppies to relligious schools. Just wait ‘till all them little dudes start memorizing the Quran! Bet the “right” didn’t figure that one in!

First of all, Kipp schools are a different animal. They are free and dependent upon the student achieving the right to attend. I am referring to voucher schools, where parents must pay for students to enroll. These will be abused as soon as interested parties start seeing profits rise, and begin investing in them for the purpose of profit. This will result in public schools losing more funding, leaving more kids behind. There is no reason that public schools can’t be run with the same standards. Part of the issue is administrators funneling funds to themselves and pet projects, like an uneven distribution favoring sports over academics. Administrators should not be making as much as they do while their students are failing. The kids need to come first. I am also not posting talking points. I have an education degree, although I am an engineer now because there was no money in teaching to support a family. My wife is a professor who has been doing her doctoral work on pedagogy and education reform. She has taught in Ireland, Finland, Germany, and Switzerland and belongs to EAPRIL, an international education reform advocacy group. The US has one of the worst public school systems in the industrialized world, and to think privatizing it is a solution is extremely saddening. To become an economic powerhouse again, the government should take a cue from the rest of the world and put the education of its’ children first and foremost.