Tom Toles for December 30, 2012

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    frodo1008  about 11 years ago

    While it is true that leaving a high debt for future generations is certainly troubling, leaving a world where you can not breath the air, drink the water, of even live in the limited amount of land left by rapidly rising oceans, is going to be a disaster for future generations of such magnitude that I am certain they will hate us much more for doing that than leaving a high debt!!!

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    lbatik  about 11 years ago

    The problem is that the groups and individuals paid to muddy the public understanding of the climate problem (like Marc Morano and Steven J. Milloy) have succeeded, succeeded wildly in fact – and it has been relatively easy for them, because unlike even “cancer from smoking”, climate is an extremely complex thing, there is a lot of variability in the system anyway, and the results of all that we do may not even be seen in our lifetimes (depending on how old you are). So it is very easy for them to claim that “everything that is happening is natural” or “humans can’t affect this system” – even though that is really not what the working science has concluded.

    Additionally, because a large problem tends to demand large action in response, they can play into the modern paranoia about “government” and conspiracies, to convince people that the science is all an excuse to add taxes and run people’s lives (somehow ignoring the fact that the scientists involved all have to live under the same governments and pay the same taxes, for a start).

    But with the public confused about what climate change is and means and how it works, then the powers on the top of the heap in the current status quo, who obviously are the ones who profit from the status quo, can keep people from agitating against the status quo. And THIS is even easier because the status quo is for the most part a comfortable consumer lifestyle that no-one WANTS to change.

    It is only at the point that people realize that the status quo carries its own costs and impacts on quality of life – like insane food costs and rising insurance costs and increasing economic disruption from storm damage, for example – that people might be able to relate the problem to something they genuinely need to take action on.

    Unfortunately, at that point it’s a little like a smoker quitting after the emphysema has developed.

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    Richard Howland-Bolton Premium Member about 11 years ago

    narrowminded (shallow too by the looks of it). Guess what, scientific understanding develops over time. Basing your argument on hundred-plus-year-old theories, especially if you are getting them from hundred-plus-year-old science FICTION is just plain daft.

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    markjoseph125  about 11 years ago

    Well, this and your other comments are full of the usual idiocy, ignorance, and right-wing paranoia. However, I must admit that I do enjoy you using the word “religion” in a negative sense. Like the fundagelicals who insist that christianity is not a religion, with the clear connotation that religion is a bad thing.Taking for purposes of discussion that religion is faith-based and science is evidence-based, even your premise is wrong, however. Check the following:http://www.treehugger.com/climate-change/pie-chart-13950-peer-reviewed-scientific-articles-earths-climate-finds-24-rejecting-global-warming.html (which shows that of the 13,950 peer-reviewed articles on climate science in the last 20 years, only 24 reject global warming. Hmm, that does not sound like a religion to me).http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=antiscience-beliefs-jeopardize-us-democracy&print=true (How scientific illiteracy endangers democracy).http://www.newstatesman.com/sci-tech/sci-tech/2012/12/brian-cox-and-robin-ince-politicians-must-not-elevate-mere-opinion-over-sc (Why politicians must not elevate opinion over science).I think you need a bit of help with scientific thinking, evidence, etc. The best book I know on the subject is Carl Sagan’s “The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark”.

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    hawkeyec Premium Member about 11 years ago

    One of your best of the year.

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    lonecat  about 11 years ago

    This is a good cartoon. Whatever the economic solution may be, it has to take ecological concerns into account. The economy in a hundred years — or fifty years — is going to be completely different, because it will be driven by ecological problems.

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    Bilword  about 11 years ago

    dheyze morons

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    Rickapolis  about 11 years ago

    And at the bottom of the cliff is the republican party, blinded by their own shortsightedness.

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    Marty Z  about 11 years ago

    Unfortunately, those explaining why global warming and climate change is a serious problem are preaching to the choir. The deniers aren’t listening. They already did their own “intensive” research (listening to FOX News, Rush, propaganda by oil companies and oil tycoons (ie the Koch Brothers), so their minds are made up. And there really are 2 sides to this issue- that of 1000s of scientists vs. a long-dead science fiction author. And even the evidence is confusing- we are now getting the worst storm in 100 years every few years, vs. it gets colder in the winter than in the summer. So we can understand the confusion.

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    Dtroutma  about 11 years ago

    “Conservatives” created that “fiscal cliff”, and have spent a year driving toward it, with no intent of applying brakes, or even turning the steering wheel, except to head for another diversion from solution.

    “Conservatives”, as in wealthy corporations, or those interested in corporate profit taking, no matter the cost to the environment that we ALL depend on, are the ones driving us toward that “climate cliff”. They don’t care, because the truly dire “stuff” predicted, based on scientific data, will indeed come after they’re dead, and have spent posterity’s future, on themselves.

    Unfortunately for some, they will pay the price of this lunacy sooner, much sooner, rather than later. Drought IS increasing, flooding in other areas IS increasing, some areas ARE getting colder, while the majority are getting warmer, storms ARE increasing in severity, and the oceans ARE in a serious decline in productivity, as is the land base. Populations of humans ARE increasing,as is the demand for “stuff”, in economies that never had access before, while other economies that DID have “stuff”, are seeing it leaving their reach.

    “Conservation”, to American conservatives is the dirtiest word, after “taxes”, and right up there with “responsibility”. Amazing that those truly “passing the buck”, are those raking them in, and the very people they’re screwing, are some of their staunchest supporters, at least on forums such as this.

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    Hawthorne  about 11 years ago

    The real problem is that ‘global warming’ and ‘climate change’ are red herrings.

    It is wholly irrelevant whether or not we are facing either condition or both; if we are, we’ll adapt, if not, well no, need. However – whichever the case, it really is imperative that we stop allowing industry and business concerns to continue to poison our water food and air.

    We have been talking about these issues since the 80s now, which is to say, three decades or more. And nothing noticeable has been done about those concerns. Oh, we’ve had a regulation here, a sop there – but nothing that has done anything to seriously put the brakes on the poisoning of the environment.

    As long as they can keep the argument going about whether or not it’s happening, they don’t see any reason to take any meaningful action.

    Quit arguing. Demand change.

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    edward thomas Premium Member about 11 years ago

    NY Times article today about what can actually be accomplished through the use /application of a carbon tax, in Ireland. And when pressed, Tigger’s answer is ALWAYS Nancy Pelosi never passed a budget. However, the OFFICIAL Republican line is that it’s the SENATE that didn’t pass a budget. With filibusters, hundreds of non-germane amendments and the need to have supermajorities to get almost anything done Besides, Pelosi was Speaker for only two years.

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    Jason Allen  about 11 years ago

    The tyranny of fear was the GW Bush mantra.No, fear has been a Republican staple since at least the 1920s. They’ve been creating and using fear of the Red Menace since the Bolshevik Revolution.

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    pam Miner  about 11 years ago

    we only have 1 earth. and we seem (the rich, CEOS, Corps, Politicians) to be trying to poison it as fast as possible. How long until it will all become incompatible with life?

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    markjoseph125  about 11 years ago

    Yes; I wasn’t sure if I should post the graphic here or not. But it does make the proportion, well, graphic. Thanks!

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    wronhewitt  about 11 years ago

    For every ‘scientist’ or ‘expert’ that claims to have proof that man is the reason for climate change, there are at least two scientists or experts who claim that geological and other evidence proves the earth has gone through many such cycles of heating up and cooling down in its 4 1/2 Billion year history, even after it began supporting life…and none of these cycles involved man’s last 100 years or so of ‘reckless industrialism.’Our planet goes through many cycles, and we happen to be living in one that is – for the most part – reflecting a slight warm up. However, in the last few decades, our planet’s average mean temperature has slowly edged up less than one and one-half degrees…Yes, that’s enough to cause some glacier melting and other symptoms of a slow and gradual temperature increase. But there is little evidence to support the claim that this gradual warming would not have taken place even if mankind was still pre-industrial. AND, there’s also little evidence to suggest that the present cycle will last long enough for temps to increase to levels that pose serious risks to our way of life. Many scientists believe that Earth will begin cooling in less than a quarter century from now – So don’t go giving away your winter coats.Scientists and other experts are every bit as good as politicians at spinning words and facts to suit their claims and positions. People are gonna believe what they choose to believe. The important thing to remember is that this issue is not decided …it’s a polarizing debate (no pun intended) – both sides think the other is wrong an’ silly for not believing them.There’s simply as much persuasive evidence for one theory as there is for the other…So pick your side an’ rant away…Earth was cycling long before man arrived, and it will be cycling long after every trace of humanity has vanished…*So, “Happy New Year”…’Better make the most of it. ;o)

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    Motivemagus  about 11 years ago

    Sayin’ it don’t make it so, Ima. And you have followed your usual path. When faced with evidence, you make a silly assertion. Science is not a religion. Scientists change views based on evidence. The religious — like you — ignore evidence based on faith.

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    wronhewitt  about 11 years ago

    This long-running ‘conversation’ (exchange of ideas an’ opinions) has one underlying message that seems clearer than any other……The regular an’ frequent commentators spew so much venom, vitriol an’ vicious insults at one another that it’s abundantly clear there would be much blood an’ death if they all were to meet in person – say, in an arena somewhere – like maybe the Coliseum in Rome – it has a long history of bloodbaths …-It’s really fascinating how belligerent an’ insulting people can be when they know they are anonymous an’ at a safe distance (‘out in cyberspace). It’s also pretty clear that without using dismissive an’ debasing language including insulting name-calling, very little would actually get said.-The tone, quality an’ civility of human discourse has really eroded…it’s unfortunately going like the art (an’ skill) of cursive writing – ‘a rapid descent into obsolescence an’ oblivion. -This is truly a pity…We are not nearly so evolved nor as sophisticated as we like to think that we are.

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    Call me Ishmael  about 11 years ago

    anything in Tennessee is suspect. It touches Alabama and Mississippi.

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    Dtroutma  about 11 years ago

    It’s all the way up to 8 degrees F. outside, which IS “warming” and representative of climate change, for us. But the “cliff” isn’t really a problem.

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    RICIG Premium Member about 11 years ago

    love the toon, Tom….

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