Jeff Danziger for December 15, 2012

We have let the NRA put the discussion of gun control off long enough. Everytime there is a shooting, all I hear is " Now is not the time". Well, we can’t go a few months between shootings here, so lets make the time. The distractions are non sequitur. A failure of the mental health system? No. None of these shooters did anything that would have put them in the system in the first place. The criminal justice system? No. None of these shooters had a criminal record. All they had in common was legal access to multiple guns. That is it. A question for all those who are afraid of the gubmint taking their guns away: how many times have you actually had to defend your house with a gun? If you want conceal carry, how many times have you drawn your gun in public? How many times have you walked into a convenience store and stopped a crime? Never. It doesn’t happen. When extra guns have been involved, innocent people got hurt. I have been held at gunpoint 3 times when I ran a drug store, and if I or anyone else would have had a gun, it would have resulted in a death (probably my own) instead of the criminal getting away with some Vicodin and being caught two days later because I stayed calm and identified them for the police. I will say the second amendment does guarantee gun ownership, but it is time to discuss what limits can be put on it. One hand gun and one rifle per citizen? How many do you need if you’re not looking to commit a crime? A required police trained course to acquire a gun? Why not? You have to do that to drive a car. Yearly registration and inspection checks? Why not? Again, your car requires the same. With every right comes responsibilities, why should guns be different?

I happened to meet up with a retrired teacher yesterday. She was deeply shaken by the events in Newton, Conn…not only was she a former grade-school teacher but she knew personally someone who;d been wounded in another mass shooting. Of all the memories of yestrday’s terrible events, that encounter is the one that will linger the longest. Talking to her, I couldt empathize with the teachers and children of the Sandy Hook elementary school in a way I could not have otherwise..

In a nation where our dropping a bomb on a school, or wedding party full of children, from half way around the world, remotely, with “clean hands”, is easily accepted morality, why should we judge our local shooters’ “morality”?

it isn’t just the guns, but the entire social value system. Just as we shouldn’t have to pay taxes to support those awful police and public “servants” who leach off the rich?

Can we finally start having a reasonable discussion about control of semiautomatic weapons?

‘Tis a shame Charlton Heston isn’t around to hold another pro-gun rally near the school, brandishing a high powered rifle and shouting how they’ll pry his gun from his cold, dead hands

The object they should be cowering from should be a US Flag holding a copy of the Second Amendment

My high-school had a similar one. We had 3 drills: fire, bomb-threat, terrorist attack.In the latter, the bisley team (that’s with single shot .22 rifles) would be ordered to line up outside the armoury (yeah, my school had one). They would then be handed a rifle and 6 bullets each, then sent to pre-organised spots around the school as part of our defence against the attack. Beggars belief.

It’s also good to remember that there are high NRA officials that are also gun and ammo manufacturers. The gun rights hysteria is highly profitable to them.-On a side note, the NRA also virtually only Republicans, consistent with protecting the wealthy interests.

^ “Any gun control inevitably leads to confiscation of all guns.” -This will be the right wing response to all of these discussions. Brought to you by the same people who believe in ‘job creators’.

For my part, I grow weary of argumentation comparing guns to cars, etc..There is no Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guaranteeing a right to car-ownership. Basta!.The 2nd Amendment was written to insure that U.S. citizens should never have to suffer the oppression of King George’s England, assuring that they have the means to resist tyranny..It’s sad that some crazies use their firearms to murder innocents – but taking guns away from the citizenry is not the solution for ending violence..http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html

If It Were Up To Me

Maybe it’s the movies, maybe it’s the booksMaybe it’s the bullets, maybe it’s the real crooksMaybe it’s the drugs, maybe it’s the parentsMaybe it’s the colors everybody’s wearinMaybe it’s the President, maybe it’s the last oneMaybe it’s the one before that, what he doneMaybe it’s the high schools, maybe it’s the teachersMaybe it’s the tattooed children in the bleachersMaybe it’s the Bible, maybe it’s the lackMaybe it’s the music, maybe it’s the crackMaybe it’s the hairdos, maybe it’s the TVMaybe it’s the cigarettes, maybe it’s the familyMaybe it’s the fast food, maybe it’s the newsMaybe it’s divorce, maybe it’s abuseMaybe it’s the lawyers, maybe it’s the prisonsMaybe it’s the Senators, maybe it’s the systemMaybe it’s the fathers, maybe it’s the sonsMaybe it’s the sisters, maybe it’s the momsMaybe it’s the radio, maybe it’s road rageMaybe El Nino, or UV raysMaybe it’s the army, maybe it’s the liquorMaybe it’s the papers, maybe the militiaMaybe it’s the athletes, maybe it’s the adsMaybe it’s the sports fans, maybe it’s a fadMaybe it’s the magazines, maybe it’s the internetMaybe it’s the lottery, maybe it’s the immigrantsMaybe it’s taxes, big businessMaybe it’s the KKK and the skinheadsMaybe it’s the communists, maybe it’s the CatholicsMaybe it’s the hippies, maybe it’s the addictsMaybe it’s the art, maybe it’s the sexMaybe it’s the homeless, maybe it’s the banksMaybe it’s the clearcut, maybe it’s the ozoneMaybe it’s the chemicals, maybe it’s the car phonesMaybe it’s the fertilizer, maybe it’s the nose ringsMaybe it’s the end, but I know one thing.If it were up to me, I’d take away the guns.© 1997, Cheryl Wheeler

“It’s a fair cop. But society is to blame.”“All right, we’ll be booking them too.” – Monty Python’s Flying Circus

Correlations can be tricky, but consider:.U.S. highest gun ownership in the world at 88.8 guns per 100 residents.U.S. highest firearms related deaths of the developed world and 12th overall at 9 deaths per 100,000 residents..Japan one of the lowest gun ownership in the world (164/178) at .6 guns per 100 residents.Japan firearm related deaths almost negligible at .07 per 100,000 residents..I presume Japan has many of the other potentially negative influences of an affluent society such as violent video games and drugs..How do you change a culture of gun ownership and violence when it is enshrined in the constitution? I doubt that implementing a new law or two around the fringes of gun ownership will make much difference.

If you are old enough to remember*, in the 1980’s under King Ronald’s guidance to cut taxes and spending (except on “Star Wars”) mental health centers lost their funding and wards of “Asylums” were released to fend for themselves. Our streets where most ended up and sometimes these people procreate with uncertain results.

The pro gun lobby IS responsible for these slaughters. No matter how they dodge the truth it is THEIR fault these children were murdered. Twist, spin, pontificate, it doesn’t matter what they do. It happened because they prevented meaningful gun laws from passing. The blood of five year old children is on their hands. And they DO NOT CARE. They will pretend that the guns had nothing to do with it, and expect us to take them seriously. And we must keep saying it until everyone understands. THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE.

Gun sales have gone off the charts because of survivalists. They fear that they may need to protect their food and homes against hungry neighbors , or police states! I can see their point. But is it worth it? If society goes that far wrong, what good would it be to kill neighbors who are starving while you thought ahead and filled your house with canned goods. If it came to that I would just as soon not want to live during such an awful time. IF I had youngsters, I would probably fight to make sure they ate for a longer, and hopefully got better. I just wanted to toss in the survivalist factor and apocalypse (of some kind), and end of civilization. We are running fast toward being NOT civilized!!

“You forget that these weapons are handed to them after rigorous training in the respective army boots camps. With tight instructions about their use, and big penalties for misuse.”

THANK YOU!!!

In keeping with the language “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State…”, I’ve long proposed that anybody who wants to keep a gun (including combat weaponry) be allowed to, PROVIDED that they (A) maintain good standing with the National Guard and/or Army Reserve (including reporting regularly for training, and availability for mobilization in an emergency), and (B) are rated at least “Qualified” in the use of that particular weapon. No restrictions for age or gender. If you are found to be carrying a weapon and cannot prove you’ve reported for duty and maintained your rating, the weapon is confiscated, and you’re fined and sent either to jail or to the nearest military base (if you’ve simply “lapsed”).

I would love to live in Canada. But at my age and with not enough money to do it, I probably would not go. I thought all the republicans were going there if Obama won. How many did go to a country with socialized medicine?

Tigger – the mass shootings were not committed by criminals, but by emotionally challenged middle class white boys with access to multiple guns. Restricting the number of guns one can own can reduce number of shooting victims. If the law-abiding parents keep only a single gun with a single clip, and restrictions are made so ammo can only be purchased by registered owners, they will not be as likely to go on these attacks because their sense of invulnerability will have been curtailed. Criminal shootings will stay the same – the last thing a career criminal wants to do is bring attention to himself, the opposite of what these kids are doing. Ansonia – I like your examples. I support the 2nd amendment in theory, and people in rural areas have multiple reasons to own 1 or 2 guns. But nobody needs an AK47 or AR15 around. Especially in high end suburbs, where these are taking place. Sw10mm – I read plenty, including police reports. A typical standoff between a single gunman and 3 officers results in 70-80 rounds being fired, with 1-3 shots hitting the gunman. That is over 70 rounds going somewhere else, and these fired by trained officers. Civilians adding to the mess would increase the likeliness of more collateral damage. “Dirty Harry” and “Death Wish” are movies, not real life.

It’s only a right if you’re in a militia…

the nra is all about money, not rights. even their members want background checks. what is wrong with a background check?

Your an ignorant fool and every time you post a comment you prove it. Canada, like the US is a country of immigrants. Visit Toronto or Vancouver and you will see all colors and creeds. Quite obviously many people are jumping the border to get in. How many Canadians are arrested for coming into the US illegally?

A British friend asked on Facebook yesterday “Why are the yanks so scared of terrorists when they do things like this to themselves?”. It was hard to answer him. Please, please have that gun debate now. And Kylie … do you know how creepy it looks to us over here to hear people in the US bragging about their “nice” guns …?

Gail Collins nailed it in yesterday’s NY Times when she said that the US probably had no more insane people than anywhere else – but that, unlike other countries, it gave its insane the technologies with which to play God.

it’s the INTERIOR control that counts: as Fred Rogers lyric goes: “it’s great to be able to stop. when you’ve planned a thing that’s wrong. and be able to do something else instead & think this song: I can stop when I want to can stop when I wish, can stop stop stop any time” and “what do you do with the mad that you feel when you feel so mad you could bite?” – songs for those Littles: keep thinking of Herod’s massacre of the innocents & Rachel refusing to be comforted because her children are no more. and the voracious media, so hungry for news they report fabrications rather than have dead air, and microphones pushed in the faces of the in-shock survivors & people magazine rushing to scoop the competition with it"s Unspeakable Tragedy issue, raiding the scrapbooks of the bereaved & scraping info from the devastated. Advent. and the knee—jerk gun control arguments & more division in the country of divisions and violence & hunger for more more more. No one can bear the silence of realization. the silence of : “don’t just DO something, sit there”. the outside blowback of 9/11 & the inside job, the fusion of kindergarden sanctuary, mentalillness & guns so powerful no target stands a chance.the celebrity tragedy pundits…I remember the ’50’s – we all wore dogtags with our info on it. time for a new cottage industry, folks. Pogo was right: we have met the enemy & he is US. Just us, Justice, Jesus, jes’ us, AIN’ nobody here but us chickens!

We were taught to do this in the forties and early fifties, because of WWII and Korea. Not the enemy is within. I can’t imagine being a child today and not having a safe place to be with adults. Very sad.

On most issues I lean to the left, to varying degrees. On guns, I’m in favor of private ownership of rifles and hand guns, and to some extent, military rifles.-—————————I can’t speak to the novel, but I agree with most of what you’ve posted..A tangent to what you’ve said: If the youth of America are denied access to firearms, how the hell can the armed services get them “up-to-speed” for armed conflict?.I served in the U.S. Army (1966-1969). In “boot camp” I saw guys who had never seen a gun before; and the drill sergeants were having fits! One trainee I remember in particular: He didn’t even have enough sense to leave the firing range with his weapon cleared. The sergeant grabbed the rifle, pointed it down-range and pulled the trigger, discharging a round. He would have kicked the trainee’s butt, if it had been legal. The trainee spent the rest of the session on the bleachers, with the sergeant’s words ringing in his (our) ears: “You could have killed one of your fellow trainees!”.I’ve rambled, I know. But it warrants consideration: If all guns are banned from private ownership, how do we get fighting forces up to par in case of another enemy attack that demands trained soldiers, in a reasonalbe amount of time?

The Supreme Court says otherwise.-———————————

There is always a convenient way to deflect blame for what is 1)a failure of parenting skills 2) ineffectiveness of the mental health community; by inadequate funding, support or skills 3) a society that views violence as a method of resolving differences over … well…. anything and 4) a major problem with drug abuse. These are difficult issues to admit and address but unless we, as a nation do, this will not be resolved. It’s never really about the guns.

I like that. Since Obama wants to have eliminated all our nuclear weapons by 2016, we’d at least know where theirs are.-—————————-