Jeff Stahler for December 15, 2012

At a school with an intensive “security system”. Maybe it’s time to realize we ARE a violent society, bringing same to others, repeatedly and keeping our heads in the sand to avoid seeing who we REALLY are?

March 13, 1996 – ScotlandA deranged gun collector kills 16 children aged four to six and their teacher at a school in Dunblane. He then kills himself.

April 20, 1999 – United StatesTwo youths aged 17 and 18 armed with guns and more than 30 home-made bombs kill 12 students and a teacher at Columbine high school in Littleton, Colorado before they both commit suicide.

April 26, 2002 – Germany

16 people, including 12 teachers and two students, are gunned down at a school in Erfurt in eastern Germany by a 19-year-old former student, apparently in revenge for having been expelled.

April 16, 2007 – United StatesA South Korean student kills 32 people on his campus at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia. He then kills himself.

November 7, 2007 – FinlandAn 18-year-old student opens fire in a school in southern Finland killing five boys, two girls and the headmistress before turning his gun on himself.

September 23, 2008 – FinlandEleven people, including the gunman, die in a massacre at a training school at Kauhajoki, Finland.

March 11, 2009 – GermanyNine pupils, three teachers and three passers-by are killed in a school shooting at Winnenden in southern Germany by a former pupil who then kills himself.

April 7, 2011 – BrazilA man believed to be a former student opens fire in a school in Rio de Janeiro killing 10 people and wounding 18 others before taking his own life.

Why don’t we actually start to attempt to respect each other by not changing the names of things, or even shortening them for the purpose of dis-respecting others on these message boards?

Heck, I will not even say ultra conservative(s), but only relatively conservative, if that would be more respectful. Words can be both hurtful and violent in nature. Perhaps being peaceful and non violent could begin even here???

Would that even be possible for some on these boards?This is not being just PC, but even reasonable human beings.

I’m a non USA-ican, and from where I sit, any non farmer or non military/law enforcer that wants to own a gun should be locked up in a mental institution. Why do you guys feel the pressing need to own things whose sole purpose is to kill someone in your community?

And how exactly do you keep the crazies from getting a gun?

BTW two thirds of your world-leading numbers of gun deaths are by suicide.

Amen to your message, Mr. Stahler.

..it seems Mr. Stahler’s message is lost on most of his commenters…

Conservegov’s list of mass murders since 1980 in other countries is depressing, but not for the reason he thinks — we’ve had more than that many mass murders in the past two years. Banning assault weapons state by state doesn’t help, because you can drive across borders. Mexican gangs get a significant amount of weapons from Arizona gun shops, as Fast and Furious showed. We need a federal ban on guns that can fire more than six rounds without reloading. There is no conceivable purpose for these weapons except mass murder.

The principal had just implemented new security procedures.Visitors would have to show ID and after a certain hour ring a bell to be let in, where they were to go to the office and sign in.The shooter’s mother was a teacher at the school, so the security didn’t work.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/dawn-hochsprung-sandy-hook-principal-security-measures_n_2303520.html

We need better and more comprehensive mental health care.

No matter your position on guns, I think we can all agree that there are people who should not have access to weapons.

I know a single mom whose son got into all kinds of chemicals, and he had already been born with a bad temper. Since she was a single mom with two small children, she had a pistol and knew how to use it. When her then-teenage son started to become unpredictable, she tried to get mental health help, but there is very little available until it’s too late.

She was smart enough to have the firing pin removed from her pistol, though.

Most families know when there is a family member who is “troubled”. Maybe we can work out a system whereby these people can be better identified (earlier) and treated.

Meantime, love as much as you can. I was watching SportsCenter ages ago, and the talking head was mentioning a certain player whose status was listed as “day-to-day”, and then he added, “but aren’t we all?”

This incident is an ugly reminder. Can we hope to improve things, or will we follow the exact same script spoken by the exact same people on the exact same TV shows? Watch me turn blue as I hold my breath…..

Stahler — Great minds think alike, as McCoy also drew something like this.And for those who didn’t read my post on that forum: I’m sure that’s what every parent is doing this morning….

Now I am reading that his mother wasn’t a full time employee at the school. Come on reporters, get the facts.

I spent time in combat, and law enforcement. I recognize violence. My last trip to Portland was some two years ago, and in three days, five were killed in three shooting incidents within a mile of my locations over those three days. The Clackamas Town Center shooting was also a place I’d been that week. It’s the reason I DO have a concealed weapon permit, but know when to use, and NOT use, a firearm for “defense”.

I’ve watched the violence increase in this nation, notably in the last three decades. It IS our acceptance of our “preemptive” wars, and attacks, not just violent video games, that legitimizes in many minds a more violent culture.

Add in a lack of willingness to pay for mental health preemptive care, at a cost annually of what we spend, DAILY, on Iraq and Afghanistan, and perhaps some of our deficiencies become clear?

Dead from a knife or dead from a gun is dead.

Mr. Stahler,

I saw your reaction to the tragic school shooting. There seems to be something missing in your picture. I think maybe it’s the child’s daddy-the mother’s husband. What is your message? There are no longer dads in our homes loving, protecting, crying with mom & children. Are you trying to help or divide? I saw many dads at the Crime Scene carrying a child or walking with their little hand in his large hand. Maybe you didn’t mean to convey the message I got, nevertheless, I interpreted that scene as further division. Many men lead their families in prayer on their knees. Too many times in America men are dipicted as mindless clods instead of a good dad. Women are more caring, more intelligent while dufus dads are not in the picture. I hear so much about single moms, but little about single dads. My son is a single dad. He loves his boy above life itself. Think about the tragedy at that school. I’ve listened very closely, but haven’t seen or heard a minister, pastor or priest on TV, only government officials such as the president, governor and so on. As someone commented, how could god let this happen? And the answer was he wasn’t there, he has been locked out of our schools. Thanks for being patient with me I’m just a very frustrated dad.

“West Germany”? How old is this information? Or rather, how long has this campaign been going on to no avail?

fallacy arguments: armed guards in school. when a shooter on 34th street this summer pulled a gun, the police in the sucessful attempt to stop him, wounded and/or killed 9 innocent bystanders. Sure we want that kind of response in our schools?Guns or knives, dead is dead. right this school shooter took out an entire class of 7&8 year olds and their teach from the door in seconds. couldn’t happen with a knifeobviously the answer is clear. Arm k-12 with at least ak15’s like the shooter had. then the next shooter won’t have a chance.

‘There have been plenty of big bloody massacres in Germany and Brazil’Brazil has massive inequities and despite developing fast these past few years, continues to have vast swathes of its population mired in poverty. Crime remains rampant in deprived neighbourhoods. So, I’ll leave Brazil out. Let’s go back to Germany, another advanced democracy, like the US and we can compare apples with apples.In 2002, a 19-year-old former student fatally shot 16 people at a high school in Erfurt, in eastern Germany, before killing himselfIn 2006, an 18-year-old student carrying explosives and rifles injured dozens of people in the northwestern German town of Emsdetten before killing himself..In 2009, Tim Kretschmer, 17, burst into his former high school and went on a shooting rampage, killing 15 people before taking his own life. So, we have 3 incidents in 10 years, 2 of which resulted in many deaths, 1 in none except for the would-be killer.Using Uncle Joe’s list above, I count for the USA 27 mass shootings since April 1999The world is full of nutters but they seem to like the US a tad more. :-|Or are you in an alternate universe instead?

can we at least do mandatory background checks on every purchase? or, ban internet sales? how about limiting the high capacity magazine? or, limit the number of weapons one can buy in a month? or, extend the waiting period to 2 weeks? or, how about requesting the gunmakers and gunsmiths to assign the weapon to the buyer, so only that buyer can fire the weapon, anyone else, the weapon won’t fire. or, have police attend gun shows to register all sales even those seller to seller sales.

Robert Landers said, 1 day ago

… "Why don’t we actually start to attempt to respect each other by not changing the names of things, or even shortening them for the purpose of dis-respecting others on these message boards?

Heck, I will not even say ultra conservative(s), but only relatively conservative, if that would be more respectful. Words can be both hurtful and violent in nature. Perhaps being peaceful and non violent could begin even here???

Would that even be possible for some on these boards?This is not being just PC, but even reasonable human beings."…________________________

With all due respect to your obviously sincere an’ impassioned appeal for humans to be something other than what they actually are … Mr. Landers, we’ve all seen the results of a few decades of PC (political correctness) run amok upon our nation, an’ the world…it isn’t pretty. It has saved some hurt feelings an’ frivolous lawsuits, but at what price?…Everyone lives in fear of the consequences of what they might slip an’ say, or accidentally write, etc. But hate speech is thriving, as you can see anywhere an’ everywhere. I’ve said it before, and I’ll repeat it here: Political Correctness is like an insidious cancer on our society. Take that for what it worth, but I fully believe it is true. I’m all for peaceful an’ reasoned discourse, as that is the civilized manner in which differences are resolved by civilized an’ reasonable people. But these comment boards are largely anonymous, an’ you seem like a very serious, reasonable an’ articulate individual, so you should not be surprised by the slant that anonymous commentary can take…This is as good a place as any to start, but civility has all but disappeared in our culture…an’ a vicious undercurrent of frustration, bitterness an’ hate has replaced it…‘ginned up by the class warfare currently under way…’Nobody is doing anything to stop it…but you an’ I both can see that it is growing in strength an’ ferocity. In many ways, these are just “vent” columns…an’ perhaps that is their best purpose…Good Luck to you, sir.

Pray for our precious children – an’ Pray for our Country.

…‘As the old adage goes, if “they” collect up all the guns, then the ones that do remain are now illegal an’ in the hands of criminals OR they are in the hands of government…which I trust even less than I would trust criminals (maybe they’re the same, anyway…). ‘Point is, many agencies of the federal government have been stockpiling ammunition (bullets) by the millions over the last few years. These agencies (IRS, DHS, EPA, FBI, CIA) are entirely unelected, answerable to no one except the current administration (especially since both houses of the Congress are completely incompetent an’ corrupt.) This massive amount of ammo suggests that the federal government may have some big plans for its use…but no one is talking…What do YOU think is going on?It’s for certain that any answers we might be given are lies, as that is the only method of communication this government has with We, The People…placating falsehoods to pacify an’ control. And if they take ALL the guns from We, The People, then who has ALL the guns? The Federal Government, that’s who. - – - – -‘Not to diminish by one iota the tragedy of any innocents who lose their lives by bullets shot at them by a psychopathic or sociopathic murderer, these horrific events may well need to be seen as the price we pay as humans to live in a free society. Personal and individual freedoms have a price, like everything else… and these shocking an’ tragic eruptions of evil may be the price we pay for our free society. It’s quite possible that no matter how tightly locked-down our society might become, these events might well still occur…Meanwhile, who pays a heavy price for living in a lockdown, Big Brother, 24/7 surveillance, zero privacy (AND zero freedom) society??? – Well that would be you an’ me, brother…an’ I can tell you – I am not ready to give a big “Amen” to that! It’s just food for thought, ‘mind you…-Pray for our precious children, an’ for America.

^ok joecool,i propose a single word change to the second amendment. change “arms” to “muskets”. keeping more in line with original intent.

btw, according to the original intent mindset, 13 constitutes a ‘massacre’ (as in boston massacre). what happened in this school was an extermination of an entire class.

^I just listened to obama’s speech. he answered that ridiculous claim as such:

““…these horrific events may well need to be seen as the price we pay as humans to live in a free society. "

the president rejects that argument, and i support him. It requires NO explaination or argument.