I don’t get it. Is the bologna supposed to represent America, or Columbus’ discovery of it, or something else or nothing? Does he even mean American bologna, or maybe it’s Italian mortadella? And why does he say he made antipasti when there’s only one antipasto in evidence?
I think I should go to bed. Maybe everyone else will have left obvious explanations by morning.
@Tony:Bologna is an Italian city; radicchio is also known as “Italian Chicory”. Columbus was, in fact, Italian, sailing from Portugal, financially backed by, and in the name of, Spain. No lox, though (he was also a Jew).
Good catch on the antipasti. I saw that one right off, too.
Runar There is no need for “scare quotes” around the word discovery because discovery is essentially a European activity. Peoples have been wandering all over the world being the first to do something, or go somewhere, probably as long as there have been people, however it is a purely European weirdness to then go around claiming that you did it first. Note, for example, that the most important act in the claim that Columbus discovered America was the printing and wide dissemination of a letter claiming that he’d done it.
The “Native Americans”, of course were here, and they were a mixed lot of likely Minoan, Asian and some Caucasoid and Jewish (many, myself included, believe the Cherokee or a mix of a native tribe and Jews) ancestry depending on the region. The Minoans, Jews, Chinese, Japanese, (the Caucasian original Japanese not the Chinese/Korean blend that occupy the islands now), and Polynesians were all here long before Columbus.
Samuel Elliot Morrison’s 2 volume classic on the discovery is titled “The European Discovery of America.”Spare me the bs that Columbus was Jewish. The Tribe has enough burdens to bear.
The arguments about Columbus are silly. Clearly he was not the first nor even the first European to visit the Americas. He was, however, the traveler who unleashed the inclusion of the Americas into the the then known world’s orbit made up of Asia [yes, China] and Europe. As for the the old trope that Columbus was Jewish, a book by the scholar Carol Delany shows that Columbus was hoping that his journey would bring riches that could be used for evangelization of the Catholic Church. Also, I take use of Bologna in the antipasto to allude to all of the baloney his travels have accreted.
The word “discover” does not mean you were the first to find something, it means you found something for the first time (for you or your group). If I say I’ve discovered a new band, I am not asserting that I was the first to discover them.
Yes, Columbus did discover America in the sense that the leading civilization of the time did not know about it. Of course other people had been there. Not quite as extensive as the silly Cherokee/Jewish thing alluded to early here, but certainly the Asians (Native Americans) had come here. However, the knowledge of the New World had been lost. The constant attempt to tear down these explorers is quite ludicrous. After the Dark Ages, so much information had been lost, we had to discover things which were known in antiquity. I salute Columbus and the rest of the explorers. Their views on race and slaves certainly is disgusting to us now, but that is a much more recent development of civilization and we should not judge them too harshly based on what we know now.
After the discovery of America, estimates of as high as 90% of the indigenous peoples of the Americas died from the diseases the Europeans brought over.
It’s been 520 years since Columbus showed his face in the Bahamas and ‘discovered’ people already living there.
They were kind to him and what did he do? He enslaved them to look for gold or some foolishness, brought his European diseases with him and, as far as we can tell, he successfully wiped them off the face of the earth.
Sure, he paved the way for another batch of people to live here, but I don’t see much reason to celebrate, considering this wasn’t even his intended destination.
I think I read somewhere that Columbus never actually landed on any part of the American mainland, so he could not have spread diseases there. I think that came with later explorers.
Columbus never set foot in North America. He got as far as Central America and went back SE from there before returning to Spain. As far as European discoverers go, Leif Erikson is the first and he didn’t stay after the first winter he and his crew spent there.
Columbus was NOT in fact Italian, Italy was not named such at the time. Columbus hailed from Genoa, and so he was Genoan. I learned this from the David Letterman show. ^^
converso, (Spanish: “converted”), one of the Spanish Jews who adopted the Christian religion after a severe persecution in the late 14th and early 15th centuries and the expulsion of religious Jews from Spain in the 1490s. In the minds of many Roman Catholic churchmen the conversos were still identified as Jews, partly because they remained within the Jewish communities in the cities and partly because their occupations (merchants, doctors, tailors) had been monopolized by the Spanish Jewish people. Such identification caused many Christians to regard conversos as a subversive force within the church.
Columbus sailed for India,Found Salvador instead,He shook hands with some IndiansAnd soon they all were dead.They got TB and typhoid and athletes foot, Diptheria and the flu,‘Scuse me, Great Nations comin through!
Balboa found the PacificAnd on the trail one dayHe met some friendly IndiansWhom he was told were gay,SooooooooooooooHe had them torn apart by dogs, On religious grounds they say,The Great Nations of Europe were quite holy in their way.
Hide your wives and daughters, hide your sons as well,With the Great Nations of Europe you never can tell.
Many people believe that the Native Americans that met Columbus, were small, diminished tribes that had already been contaminated by the Norsemen……It’s almost certain that Chinese ships made it here very early on. They wouldn’t have even had to stray far from the coast. Look at the map. There is shoreline all the way there. (except for the 90 mile Bering Straight). It would have been easy…No pesky Atlantic to sail across……
Hey, let’s not forget about the Irish monk Saint Brendan the Navigator (c. 484 – c. 577). It wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that Arlo also celebrates St. Brendan’s day, 16 May.
Columbus didn’t discover America. He landed on an island in the West Indies and thought he was in China, turned around and west home without ever landing on or seeing America. Besides, the vikings had a colony in Newfoundland hundreds of years before that, and there had been people living here since before the last ice age. Columbus couldn’t find his hat with both hands even with a road map. He certainly doesn’t deserve a holiday.
Tony over 11 years ago
I don’t get it. Is the bologna supposed to represent America, or Columbus’ discovery of it, or something else or nothing? Does he even mean American bologna, or maybe it’s Italian mortadella? And why does he say he made antipasti when there’s only one antipasto in evidence?
I think I should go to bed. Maybe everyone else will have left obvious explanations by morning.
Tandembuzz over 11 years ago
@Tony:Bologna is an Italian city; radicchio is also known as “Italian Chicory”. Columbus was, in fact, Italian, sailing from Portugal, financially backed by, and in the name of, Spain. No lox, though (he was also a Jew).
Good catch on the antipasti. I saw that one right off, too.
Hope you slept well!
frumdebang over 11 years ago
I think balogna represents the arguable “baloney” that Columbus was the first to discover America.
runar over 11 years ago
Later versions of this recipe were served in a smallpox wrap…
James Lindley Premium Member over 11 years ago
I celebrated Leif Erikson day which just happens to fall on October 9 so I celebrate it the same weekend as Columbus Day.
Richard Howland-Bolton Premium Member over 11 years ago
Runar There is no need for “scare quotes” around the word discovery because discovery is essentially a European activity. Peoples have been wandering all over the world being the first to do something, or go somewhere, probably as long as there have been people, however it is a purely European weirdness to then go around claiming that you did it first. Note, for example, that the most important act in the claim that Columbus discovered America was the printing and wide dissemination of a letter claiming that he’d done it.
toppop52 over 11 years ago
The “Native Americans”, of course were here, and they were a mixed lot of likely Minoan, Asian and some Caucasoid and Jewish (many, myself included, believe the Cherokee or a mix of a native tribe and Jews) ancestry depending on the region. The Minoans, Jews, Chinese, Japanese, (the Caucasian original Japanese not the Chinese/Korean blend that occupy the islands now), and Polynesians were all here long before Columbus.
George Alexander over 11 years ago
Samuel Elliot Morrison’s 2 volume classic on the discovery is titled “The European Discovery of America.”Spare me the bs that Columbus was Jewish. The Tribe has enough burdens to bear.
guyzie174 over 11 years ago
The arguments about Columbus are silly. Clearly he was not the first nor even the first European to visit the Americas. He was, however, the traveler who unleashed the inclusion of the Americas into the the then known world’s orbit made up of Asia [yes, China] and Europe. As for the the old trope that Columbus was Jewish, a book by the scholar Carol Delany shows that Columbus was hoping that his journey would bring riches that could be used for evangelization of the Catholic Church. Also, I take use of Bologna in the antipasto to allude to all of the baloney his travels have accreted.
Matthew Davis over 11 years ago
The word “discover” does not mean you were the first to find something, it means you found something for the first time (for you or your group). If I say I’ve discovered a new band, I am not asserting that I was the first to discover them.
Cajtri87 over 11 years ago
Yes, Columbus did discover America in the sense that the leading civilization of the time did not know about it. Of course other people had been there. Not quite as extensive as the silly Cherokee/Jewish thing alluded to early here, but certainly the Asians (Native Americans) had come here. However, the knowledge of the New World had been lost. The constant attempt to tear down these explorers is quite ludicrous. After the Dark Ages, so much information had been lost, we had to discover things which were known in antiquity. I salute Columbus and the rest of the explorers. Their views on race and slaves certainly is disgusting to us now, but that is a much more recent development of civilization and we should not judge them too harshly based on what we know now.
gaebie over 11 years ago
After the discovery of America, estimates of as high as 90% of the indigenous peoples of the Americas died from the diseases the Europeans brought over.
finale over 11 years ago
No anchovies!?!?!?
wroady over 11 years ago
you people sure know how to take the fun out of comics!
jadoo823 over 11 years ago
…THANK YOU…
SuperFreckles over 11 years ago
It’s been 520 years since Columbus showed his face in the Bahamas and ‘discovered’ people already living there.
They were kind to him and what did he do? He enslaved them to look for gold or some foolishness, brought his European diseases with him and, as far as we can tell, he successfully wiped them off the face of the earth.
Sure, he paved the way for another batch of people to live here, but I don’t see much reason to celebrate, considering this wasn’t even his intended destination.
QuietStorm27 over 11 years ago
Columbus stumbled upon the already inhabited land now known as America which was a new discovery for Europeans who thought the world was flat.
ECJack over 11 years ago
In honor of Columbus Day, we should all go to someone else’s house and say “I live here now.”
charliefarmrhere over 11 years ago
I think I read somewhere that Columbus never actually landed on any part of the American mainland, so he could not have spread diseases there. I think that came with later explorers.
cbrsarah over 11 years ago
Columbus never set foot in North America. He got as far as Central America and went back SE from there before returning to Spain. As far as European discoverers go, Leif Erikson is the first and he didn’t stay after the first winter he and his crew spent there.
elysummers over 11 years ago
Very good discussion all. :)
hypertay over 11 years ago
Columbus was NOT in fact Italian, Italy was not named such at the time. Columbus hailed from Genoa, and so he was Genoan. I learned this from the David Letterman show. ^^
JohnHarry Premium Member over 11 years ago
converso, (Spanish: “converted”), one of the Spanish Jews who adopted the Christian religion after a severe persecution in the late 14th and early 15th centuries and the expulsion of religious Jews from Spain in the 1490s. In the minds of many Roman Catholic churchmen the conversos were still identified as Jews, partly because they remained within the Jewish communities in the cities and partly because their occupations (merchants, doctors, tailors) had been monopolized by the Spanish Jewish people. Such identification caused many Christians to regard conversos as a subversive force within the church.
fritzoid Premium Member over 11 years ago
Columbus sailed for India,Found Salvador instead,He shook hands with some IndiansAnd soon they all were dead.They got TB and typhoid and athletes foot, Diptheria and the flu,‘Scuse me, Great Nations comin through!
Balboa found the PacificAnd on the trail one dayHe met some friendly IndiansWhom he was told were gay,SooooooooooooooHe had them torn apart by dogs, On religious grounds they say,The Great Nations of Europe were quite holy in their way.
Hide your wives and daughters, hide your sons as well,With the Great Nations of Europe you never can tell.
“Great Nations of Europe,” Randy Newman
Varnes over 11 years ago
Many people believe that the Native Americans that met Columbus, were small, diminished tribes that had already been contaminated by the Norsemen……It’s almost certain that Chinese ships made it here very early on. They wouldn’t have even had to stray far from the coast. Look at the map. There is shoreline all the way there. (except for the 90 mile Bering Straight). It would have been easy…No pesky Atlantic to sail across……
jbmlaw01 over 11 years ago
I am a dull blade. I thought JJ merely gave Arlo a Dagwood-esque personna for the day. Nothing too deep.
1504jarvis over 11 years ago
Hey, let’s not forget about the Irish monk Saint Brendan the Navigator (c. 484 – c. 577). It wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that Arlo also celebrates St. Brendan’s day, 16 May.
Dampwaffle over 11 years ago
Columbus didn’t discover America. He landed on an island in the West Indies and thought he was in China, turned around and west home without ever landing on or seeing America. Besides, the vikings had a colony in Newfoundland hundreds of years before that, and there had been people living here since before the last ice age. Columbus couldn’t find his hat with both hands even with a road map. He certainly doesn’t deserve a holiday.