The federal government will pay initially but eventually become a state burden as is Medicaid. Unfunded mandates are burying us. Social Security is a ponzi scheme that paid out the first collectors and will NEVER ever be a cost neutral plan, at best the full pain won’t be realized until after the baby boomers all die off. Most likely, contributions will be increased to postpone the inevitable.
when the public option was killed, that ensured no chance to bring down the soaring costs of medical care …. and no attempt to retrieve the waste of dollars going into the over-stuffed wallets of big insurance and pharma
Wait til we see the cost of health care for veterans of Iraq (X2) and Afghanistan for long term care- like around $2-3 trillion over time. Then add in the cost of the wars alone, equipment, expended weapons, etc– health care reform IS cheap- but admittedly- a better bill can still be worked out, if Republicans will join up, and put up or shut up.
^ GOP decided early on they would not be a part of healthcare reform. Strategy was to delay, denounce with lies, offer one amendment after another pretending MAYBE that would win their vote (almost 700 amendments offered in one Senate committee alone), then delay some more, denounce some more.
new strategy from what I’ve read is that those running for office in 2010 will campaign on repealing whatever gets passed.
gentlemen/ladies
specifically dtroutma and believecommonsense
Ah, you have changed my mind with your insightful, balanced editorial. Now you have my undivided attention, name ONE ….just ONE government service that runs like a well-oiled machine. Oh yes BCS, the public option, to have low-cost coverage administered by the US government when those nasty insurance companies want you to pay too much for your coverage!
Hey you guys. I challenged you to creat your OWN companies built on altruism, not other peoples wallets.
So, where do I sign up?
johndh, you know I gotta say this. When you first appeared on this site, you seemed reasonable. I responded to your comments/questions with links to buttress my comments. And I mean links to independent sites, research sites that have collected healthcare data for 30 years or more. I’ve shared specifics from my knowledge of healthcare market in CA from my 15 years of working in healthcare management.
In return, you’ve consistently not acknowledged my posts, nor commented on the information. For me, you’ve done it one too many times. (You can find some of them in the healthcare reform collection from my profile page. I won’t do it again. You can read my most recent comment on
http://www.gocomics.com/danasummers/2009/12/28/ )
And I’ll answer your question with one irrefutable fact.
What industry has grown more financially onerous, less efficient, less productive, and available to fewer people the more it has been turned over to the private market?
Heatlhcare in the United States of America
BCS: While I was in Austria these past couple of weeks, I asked my in-laws quite a few questions regarding how one obtains medical cover etc because the discussions on this forum made me realise how little I knew how other European nations have cover and as we plan to move there in the near future, it’s something I want to be clear about.
The answers were a little reassuring but very vague. :p
I wish you were the Austrian expert!
believecommonsense
In fairness to you, I surely will visit the site you post.
I just read your post from 12/28 and appreciate your effort to address a very complex issue. You at least are taking the effort to get past all the rhetoric.
For my part, I have worked in the private health insurance sector and have my own suggestions for a ‘turnabout’ if you will.
The health care system needs fixing; on that we agree.
What I cannot agree with is the government’s involvement. Lets say the government stepping in to pay for a shortfall on premiums and not actually administering the health care? I confess to not trusting ANY enterprise to live within its means. Certainly if there is government largesse to cover shortfall, any company ‘worth its salt’ will find ways to absorb additional revenues and still plead poverty.
I want to outline my thoughts but I am running out of time this New years Eve!
Thank you again believecommonsense for articulating your thoughts.
johndh, civility is always better than sarcasm. And actually I welcome the chance to have informed, reasoned dialogue with those who see things differently than I. I write a lot about healthcare because I have a lot of experience and knowledge about healthcare. It’s easy for me to spot nonsense and falsehoods quite quickly.
What’s wrong with having the government involved in health care ? Is it better that it’s involved in killing people abroad ? As far as I know, the government is involved in health care in some form or another in all OECD countries - including the US (Medicare, which for some reason is rarely mentioned by those that oppose a government role) - and the average life expectancy in this group of countries is higher than that in the United States, while neo-natal mortaility is lower. Does that not indicate that government participation in health care can, in fact, be advantageous, not least to the very young and the very old ?…
bradwilliams over 14 years ago
They havent done anyting yet. Both houses have to work it out. I doubt it will get done.
Libertarian1 over 14 years ago
And their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be getting the bills. There is no upper limit on what we can spend on health.
HARVIN over 14 years ago
Send the bill to the Pentagon.
Imajs Premium Member over 14 years ago
The federal government will pay initially but eventually become a state burden as is Medicaid. Unfunded mandates are burying us. Social Security is a ponzi scheme that paid out the first collectors and will NEVER ever be a cost neutral plan, at best the full pain won’t be realized until after the baby boomers all die off. Most likely, contributions will be increased to postpone the inevitable.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
when the public option was killed, that ensured no chance to bring down the soaring costs of medical care …. and no attempt to retrieve the waste of dollars going into the over-stuffed wallets of big insurance and pharma
Dtroutma over 14 years ago
Wait til we see the cost of health care for veterans of Iraq (X2) and Afghanistan for long term care- like around $2-3 trillion over time. Then add in the cost of the wars alone, equipment, expended weapons, etc– health care reform IS cheap- but admittedly- a better bill can still be worked out, if Republicans will join up, and put up or shut up.
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
^ GOP decided early on they would not be a part of healthcare reform. Strategy was to delay, denounce with lies, offer one amendment after another pretending MAYBE that would win their vote (almost 700 amendments offered in one Senate committee alone), then delay some more, denounce some more.
new strategy from what I’ve read is that those running for office in 2010 will campaign on repealing whatever gets passed.
johndh123 over 14 years ago
gentlemen/ladies specifically dtroutma and believecommonsense Ah, you have changed my mind with your insightful, balanced editorial. Now you have my undivided attention, name ONE ….just ONE government service that runs like a well-oiled machine. Oh yes BCS, the public option, to have low-cost coverage administered by the US government when those nasty insurance companies want you to pay too much for your coverage! Hey you guys. I challenged you to creat your OWN companies built on altruism, not other peoples wallets. So, where do I sign up?
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
johndh, you know I gotta say this. When you first appeared on this site, you seemed reasonable. I responded to your comments/questions with links to buttress my comments. And I mean links to independent sites, research sites that have collected healthcare data for 30 years or more. I’ve shared specifics from my knowledge of healthcare market in CA from my 15 years of working in healthcare management.
In return, you’ve consistently not acknowledged my posts, nor commented on the information. For me, you’ve done it one too many times. (You can find some of them in the healthcare reform collection from my profile page. I won’t do it again. You can read my most recent comment on http://www.gocomics.com/danasummers/2009/12/28/ )
And I’ll answer your question with one irrefutable fact.
What industry has grown more financially onerous, less efficient, less productive, and available to fewer people the more it has been turned over to the private market? Heatlhcare in the United States of America
OmqR-IV.0 over 14 years ago
BCS: While I was in Austria these past couple of weeks, I asked my in-laws quite a few questions regarding how one obtains medical cover etc because the discussions on this forum made me realise how little I knew how other European nations have cover and as we plan to move there in the near future, it’s something I want to be clear about. The answers were a little reassuring but very vague. :p I wish you were the Austrian expert!
So I shall soldier on and do some more research.
johndh123 over 14 years ago
believecommonsense In fairness to you, I surely will visit the site you post.
I just read your post from 12/28 and appreciate your effort to address a very complex issue. You at least are taking the effort to get past all the rhetoric. For my part, I have worked in the private health insurance sector and have my own suggestions for a ‘turnabout’ if you will. The health care system needs fixing; on that we agree. What I cannot agree with is the government’s involvement. Lets say the government stepping in to pay for a shortfall on premiums and not actually administering the health care? I confess to not trusting ANY enterprise to live within its means. Certainly if there is government largesse to cover shortfall, any company ‘worth its salt’ will find ways to absorb additional revenues and still plead poverty.
I want to outline my thoughts but I am running out of time this New years Eve!
Thank you again believecommonsense for articulating your thoughts.
Have a great New Years!
I will be back soon, promise!
believecommonsense over 14 years ago
omQR, thank you kindly.
johndh, civility is always better than sarcasm. And actually I welcome the chance to have informed, reasoned dialogue with those who see things differently than I. I write a lot about healthcare because I have a lot of experience and knowledge about healthcare. It’s easy for me to spot nonsense and falsehoods quite quickly.
mhenriday over 14 years ago
What’s wrong with having the government involved in health care ? Is it better that it’s involved in killing people abroad ? As far as I know, the government is involved in health care in some form or another in all OECD countries - including the US (Medicare, which for some reason is rarely mentioned by those that oppose a government role) - and the average life expectancy in this group of countries is higher than that in the United States, while neo-natal mortaility is lower. Does that not indicate that government participation in health care can, in fact, be advantageous, not least to the very young and the very old ?…
Henri