Chip Bok by Chip Bok

Chip Bok

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  1. exoticdoc2

    exoticdoc2 said, about 3 years ago

    The ironic thing is that there will never truly be such a thing as homosexual marriage. The institution was established by God with the creation of man and woman, and therefore only God can change it. Since he has made his stance on homosexuality abundantly clear, this will never happen. No matter what human call it, no matter what laws are passed, no matter what the courts state, there can never be such a thing as true homosexual marriage, it is impossible. It all comes back to the question of how you decide right from wrong. What is the source for objective morality? There is only one, much to the dismay of the atheists who wish otherwise.

  2. David B

    David B said, about 3 years ago

    Will the churches be “forced” to perform the weddings against their core beliefs?
    Separation works both ways or at least it’s supposed to? Keep the government out of religion and keep religion out of government.

  3. TJDestry

    TJDestry GoComics PRO Member said, about 3 years ago

    “Marriage” is only both a religious sacrament and a civil contract because the church was once the source of literate record-keeping, but there have been civil governments for about the last 500 years, and the United States was specifically set up such that religious leaders were not civil authorities.

    Thus you can obtain a legal marriage at the town hall without ever having to go into a church, much less get the permission of a religious leader.

    Anything else you missed in history class, Chip?

  4. lonecat

    lonecat said, about 3 years ago

    I hear that Adam and Eve weren’t married — they were living in sin.

  5. dtroutma

    dtroutma GoComics PRO Member said, about 3 years ago

    Anyone care to guess how syphilis was introduced to the human population? Ah, yes, when men were men, and the sheep were nervous.

  6. Cynthia

    Cynthia GoComics PRO Member said, about 3 years ago

    @exoticdoc2

    I’m a liberal who believes in God, but I think anyone who pretends to be a christian and brings it to regulate people’s private lives or promote a political agenda is breaking the fourth commandment.

  7. Cynthia

    Cynthia GoComics PRO Member said, about 3 years ago

    Shhhh….check it on wikipedia, I want to know if the holy rollers know which one it is!

  8. exoticdoc2

    exoticdoc2 said, about 3 years ago

    The idea it is "overpopulated is false. It is mismanaged and that is all our fault. The fact of the bad situation we are in in the first place is also our fault, much as there are those loathe to admit it.

  9. exoticdoc2

    exoticdoc2 said, about 3 years ago

    You’ve tried this failure of an approach before. How do you decide whose “reason” we use? In the end it still comes down to mere human opinion. And logic and reason fall short when it comes to dealing with “oughts.” They can tell you whether you CAN do something, but are impotent to explain the oughts associated with morality. Also, since in your own atheistic worldview any “choices” we make are simply the result of chemical reactions in the brain, there is no free will, we are all simply slaves to the laws of chemistry. No free will, no morality, for you cannot hold someone responsible for a supposed wrong if they had no choice in the matter. And since this same brain chemistry that makes you adhere to atheism would also make a Christian adhere to his worldview, what makes your random brain chemistry more valid than anyone else’s? I think it likely you will live out your life clinging to this silly idea that you have somehow come up with a valid basis for atheistic morality, something no other atheist in history has ever successfully done, which makes it all the sadder. Finally, the Christian approach to morality is not based on “fear,” which is a common atheistic caricature. It is based on the recognition of the fact that to have true morality one must have a source outside of and above humans, and that God, as Creator of reality, is the only one that fits the bill. As a just and holy God, of course there must be consequences to sin, yet God in his grace and mercy has offered us a way out. Whether to accept it or continue to live their own selfish lives apart from him is up to the individual.

  10. exoticdoc2

    exoticdoc2 said, about 3 years ago

    @lonecat

    The very point is that God established marriage from the beginning. It was he who married Adam and Eve, made them bonded pair one man to one women. Jesus reiterated this in the New Testament.

  11. exoticdoc2

    exoticdoc2 said, about 3 years ago

    And once more you fail to address the main point. What makes that person’s, the parent of the 2-year-old, idea of moral behavior more valid than the next random collection of atom’s opinion? Hitler thought it was reasonable to slaughter all the Jews as they were less evolved than his master race, which is perfectly consistent with evolutionary/atheistic thinking. So once again you have failed to produce a way to distinguish between one person’s opinion and another’s. And God tells us how we should live because he knows what will bring the greatest good, whereas we do not. But there are consequences to doing what is wrong and we must pay the price for the sins we commit as God is a just and holy God. Do good because it is good, not simply out of fear of consequences as you paint your caricature. But you still dodge the main question. What DETERMINES what is good? You still offer nothing but opinion with no way to decide one random collection of atom’s from another’s.

  12. exoticdoc2

    exoticdoc2 said, about 3 years ago

    @Cynthia

    Not sure what you mean by the commandment comment since it makes no sense. But which god do you believe in? Certainly not the God of the Bible since he made himself very clear on the matter of homosexuality. Believing in some god of your own creation in meaningless.

  13. exoticdoc2

    exoticdoc2 said, about 3 years ago

    And once again you miss the whole point. WHOSE reason determines what is good? WHAT is it that sets one person’s reason above another’s when they disagree, as often they do? Both of our brains are, within atheism, slaves to the laws of chemistry. 1) this means no free will which is a prerequisite for morality, and 2) since my brain, which concludes Christianity is the truth, and yours, which concludes atheism is, are merely obeying the same laws of chemistry, HOW can one be determined to be superior to the other within the atheistic worldview? WHY was Hitler’s reasoning incorrect, reasoning that was fully consistent with the evolutionary/atheistic worldview, while one who takes the opposite view is correct? You STILL come down to human opinion as to whose reasoning is best. This is what you persist in ignoring. YOU HAVE NEVER GIVEN A SOLID REPLY TO ANY OF THIS. No free will, no morality, no way of distinguishing one opinion or way of reasoning and setting it above another’s, no morality. It is inescapable. You are floundering in denial.

  14. lonecat

    lonecat said, about 3 years ago

    It’s probably pointless to try to add to this discussion, but I’m a sucker. Of course I agree with DrC for the most part, but here’s a point he may or may not agree with: There is no foundation. I think that’s what gives exoticdoc the willies — he needs a foundation or else he feels lost. Personally, I don’t need a foundation.
    +
    For example, for a long time mathematicians thought that the axioms of Euclid were foundational. Then gradually they began to realize that the fifth axiom, the parallels axiom, wasn’t necessary, and they developed non-Euclidean geometries, which are just as good as Euclidean geometries, and for some purposes better. There is no foundation. But math works just fine anyway. You pick the math you need to do the job at hand.
    +
    Here’s another example: modular arithmetic. In ordinary arithmetic, 11 + 3 would equal 14, but in modulus 12, 11+3 = 2 — that’s why if it’s 11 o’clock now, in three hours it will be 2 o’clock, not 14 o’clock (in a twelve-hour culture). There is no foundation. You pick which arithmetic you need to do the job. Sometimes we think of time as a cycle, so we need a modular arithmetic. Other times, we think of it as linear, and then we use linear arithmetic.
    +
    One reason we don’t need a foundation is that we grow into the world. When we are born we are not faced with abstract problems of reasoning to solve. We are faced with life. We grow into life, and we make terms with it. Reason is a great tool for coming to terms with life, but it’s not the only tool we have. We also have, for example, empathy, the ability to imagine the feelings of other people. It’s important to give children the tool of reason, but it’s just as important, perhaps more important, to give them the tool of empathy. A person who has good empathy is likely to be moral; but I’ve known some good reasoners who were not moral. (I knew a kid who was probably what you’d call a mathematical genius, but he ended up in an institution for the criminally insane because he didn’t have empathy.)
    +
    Also, not all moral problems have easy or obvious solutions. Some people really need to know the answer, and they need to know it now. I don’t. I’m willing to live with a certain degree of uncertainty — good thing, because as I understand the world, I don’t understand the world. That is, I think there’s uncertainly all over. For instance, is nuclear power a good option now? (I take this as a moral problem.) Well, there are good arguments on both sides, and for now I have to say I’m undecided.
    +
    Way too much. I’ve got work to do today. See you tonight.

  15. exoticdoc2

    exoticdoc2 said, about 3 years ago

    What you are totally ignorant of is the basis for this very discussion. Within the atheistic worldview, the same laws of chemistry that caused you to “reason” that atheism is the truth, also caused me to conclude that Christianity is the truth. Obviously people do not all reason the same, and further you have to answer how, under these circumstances, the atheist’s way of reasoning could be considered superior to the Christians. Since people obviously do not all reason the same, your comment that reason is universal and shared by all is utterly wrong and you must come up with a way to differentiate the validity of one person’s reason or opinion from another’s, which you have repeatedly failed to do. You have also failed to answer how reason can answer the “oughts.” Reason can tell you whether you CAN do something, but is incapable of dealing with whether you ought to do it. If you use reason, for instance, murder or rape would be just fine as long as you can get away with it and there are no personal consequences to you. In fact, such things would be beneficial in an evolutionary worldview if it helps pass your genes along. You also failed to answer how, since there is no free will within atheism, you can hold someone accountable for their actions. Since we are all just material beings, any “choices” are merely the result of chemical reactions in the brain set to go off in a certain way in response to a given stimulus. No free will involved. You dance, you dodge, you pretend you have offered and answer and I am certain you will keep living in your bubble, telling yourself you have based your life on something solid until your time on this planet is through, but it would change the result.

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